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223 too small primer pocket

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by shoots45s, May 7, 2012.

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  1. shoots45s

    shoots45s Member

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    I'm loading 223 with CCI SR primers. I loaded 250 rounds yesterday and had some trouble with 43 cases where the primer would not seat in the pocket. They would not go into the pocket with even with considerable force. I destroyed two of them (they didn't go bang, just crushed them). The brass is mixed head stamp I picked up at a range and it's been processed (washed, cleaned, polished, mouth resized, trimmed to length, deburred and camphered). In addition, all were checked for military crimp and the few I found were reamed. When I process, I'm finding 10-20 cases per 200 or so cases that have military crimp, so the fact that I found 43 in 293 is too many.

    Most of the brass that would not accept the primer had military crimps but the reamer tool and the pocket cleaner (Lyman) fit inside all of them. For now I set these casing aside and moved on to others. It just seems that the pocket hole is too small for the primer.

    In addition, I found that once I attempt to seat a primer in a case with a small pocket, that primer would be difficult to seat in other cases, as if it were slightly flattened.

    Is there some trick to getting the primers to seat? Is this a known issue with CCI primers? Should I seat the primers using a different tool? I'm using a Classic Lee turret.

    Thanks in advance
     
  2. morrow

    morrow Member

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    So even after you reamed them the primers still wouldn't go in? Did you ream 'enough'?
     
  3. steve4102

    steve4102 Member

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    Crimped Primer pocket. Very common in the 223/5.56. You have to remove the crimp before you can seat a new primer.
     
  4. redneck2

    redneck2 Member

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    CCI's have a harder cup and are sometimes harder to seat. I typically use Federal. They seat with no problem in the same cases that won't accept CCI's. As noted, the military crimp probably makes it worse.

    Downside to Federal and the softer cup is that you can have a slamfire with AR's. I know because my friend's AR did it while we were sighting it in.

    If you have an AR, don't hit the bolt release and let it drop on a round that's loose in the chamber. If it picks up a round out of the mag, there doesn't seem to be a problem.

    HTH
     
  5. xmanpike

    xmanpike Member

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    It's from a military crimp. You need to shave it off
     
  6. GLOOB

    GLOOB Member

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    Easiest thing to try is to ream those pockets again. Keep going until the tool bottoms out. The nose of the reaming tool isnt wide enough to remove the crimp. It just guides the tool mainly, even though it has cutting teeth. It doesnt really "ream" the pocket out radially at all. It is kind of a misnomer. Gotta get the tool all the way in so the flared base of the reamer can cut the crimp out from top to bottom. You should be left with a 45 degree bevel that is at least as deep as the crimp goes. It's more of a selfcentering countersinking tool with a depth stop than a reaming tool.

    If that doesnt work then lots of different things could be wrong. Tight pockets, bad batch of primers, or a bad reaming tool. That shouldn't be happening.
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2012
  7. matrem

    matrem Member

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    You used both, the Lyman reamer & uniformer?
    Though there are more efficient methods, I've never had a problem with any crimped primer pocket after using both of those.
     
  8. 4895

    4895 Member

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    Most cost effective tool I have found for that is the RCBS primer pocket swage tool. It fits 5.56 and 7.62 primer pockets and presses or "swages" the pocket uniform. Rather than trim too much brass or weaken the brass with a reamer that will go dull within a few hundered cases. Lyman primer pocket reamer was horrible (IMO) and I wasted a few bucks there.

    If you have the extra cash, Dillon makes a bench mountable swage tool that is pretty trick. Costs around $100 IIRC vs. RCBS $25 tool.
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2012
  9. dap22

    dap22 Member

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    I've been using a Weldon DB-18 countersink with a portable hand drill to rid the military crimp. Works like a charm. You can google it and I found mine on EBAY quite some time ago. Here's where you can go to see what it looks like:

    After you do a couple cases you'll get a feel for how much to do. Works slick.

    http://www.crlaurence.com/productimages/d/db18.gif
     
  10. shoots45s

    shoots45s Member

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    "So even after you reamed them the primers still wouldn't go in? Did you ream 'enough'?"

    Yes both the Lyman reamer and pocket cleaner would go in the pocket.

    What do you mean by ream 'enough'?
     
  11. shoots45s

    shoots45s Member

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    "Crimped Primer pocket. Very common in the 223/5.56. You have to remove the crimp before you can seat a new primer."

    Did that. Apparently didn't remove enough...
     
  12. shoots45s

    shoots45s Member

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    "Most cost effective tool I have found for that is the RCBS primer pocket swage tool. It fits 5.56 and 7.62 primer pockets and presses or "swages" the pocket uniform. Rather than trim too much brass or weaken the brass with a reamer that will go dull within a few hundered cases. Lyman primer pocket reamer was horrible (IMO) and I wasted a few bucks there."

    This seems to be the best solution. Does this work with the Lee shell holders? From the description on Amazon " fits 7/8" x 14 presses with RCBS-type removable shell holders. ".
     
  13. 4895

    4895 Member

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    Yes, it works with what you have. Very self-explanatory.
     
  14. kingmt

    kingmt Member

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    I like the CH4D one.
     
  15. liberty -r- death

    liberty -r- death Member

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    Crimped brass for sure. I had problems with my Lyman reamer not doing a good enough job on crimp brass.

    I used to use a drill bit larger than the primer pocket run in reverse to smooth out the lip on military crimps. Easy for small amounts of brass. Doesn't take much pressure or effort to do it this way.

    Now I have Dillon super swage 600. Much faster for large amounts of brass.
     
  16. Jeff H

    Jeff H Member

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    Despite cutting the crimp out, I seem to have a fair amount of issues seating primers in Federal nickle cases. Since brass is cheap and plentiful, I just toss those in the recycle bin and move on to the next. Life is too short to struggle seating primers. YMMV
     
  17. aerod1

    aerod1 Member

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    I use the Lee hand held "deburring / chamfering" tool to remove the crimp. They load just fine when I do that.
     
  18. dickttx

    dickttx Member

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    The RCBS does a good job, but your press has to have a normal size ram (1"?). I had to modify mine to use on my C-H CHampion with the larger ram.
    They also won't work on the Lee Classic Turret.
    Aerod1 has the simplest and cheapest solution, unless you are doing hundreds of them. Just used it on some 9mm GI.
     
  19. medalguy

    medalguy Member

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    Try reaming the primer pocket again, and do about 5-6 cases, then try seating a primer. If you still have problems, ream just a tad more. You'll figure out how much to remove.

    I use the Dillon Super Swager, it's great. Every time I set it up for a different case, I swage about 20 cases and see if the primers fit easily. If not, I set the swager to do just a bit more, then repeat the 20 test cases. This way I'm certain all the cases will be sufficiently swaged before I do several thousand, then discover I have to do them again. All it takes is a bit of experience, like most other things. Hang in there.
     
  20. MachIVshooter

    MachIVshooter Member

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    Same here. I just stick the thing (mine is RCBS) in a cordless drill and go to town.
     
  21. Clark

    Clark Member

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    [​IMG]

    The Dillion Super swage 600 is ~ $100 and is a REALLY nice tool for fixing tight military primer pockets.

    But for $100 you could throw away a lot of brass.
     
  22. kingmt

    kingmt Member

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    I think the CH4D was $35 TYD for Lg & Smaller swage & ram prime set. There is no need for full stroke of the press. You just move the handle a small amount. You can fell it go past the cramp so adjustment is easy & no over doing it. Ram primeing is so much easier also.
     
  23. Ken70

    Ken70 Member

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    I found out that range pickup brass needs to be 100% reamed to remove the crimp. Most of us don't have the eyes to see if that primer is crimped or not. So just run all of them. You just frustrate yourself trying to be selective.


    I've been using a cordless drill and a counter sink. I let the bit rotate twice and generate a couple of small chips. Then like someone else mentioned try priming 10 or 20 to make sure you're doing enough to remove the crimp.

    Reaming gives a nice tapered entrance to the primer pocket, just knock the corner off the pocket. You don't need to do more than that.
     
  24. StandingTall

    StandingTall Member

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    [​IMG]

    New RCBS Bench Mounted Primer Pocket Swager. $78.99 at Midway. Just bought it recently and have used it on over 500 rounds of LC .308 brass so far. Works like a charm and no issues seating primers.
     
  25. GLOOB

    GLOOB Member

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    Oh, wow. I scored a bunch of crimped brass the other day. After messing with a regular Wilson chamfer tool ("rocketship"/countersink), it's a huge win over a reaming tool in my book. I initially thought that since it didn't have a depth stop, it would be annoying knowing when to stop and that it wouldn't produce as uniform a result.

    But it's really easy to get a uniform "ream", esp with a drill (simply chuck it right onto the neck guide on the outside chamfer side of the "rocket", with the 3 outside cutters spaced between the 3 jaws of the chuck). The bevel appears to be BETTER centered compared to the Hornady reaming tool I used before. It doesn't catch/enlarge/gouge the sides of the pocket like a reamer, which means it takes less effort to hold the case, especially on those cases with the staked crimp. (With the Horndady reamer chucked in a drill, I had to use high rpm and a tight grip to get the ream started, else it would catch and spin the case out of my hands). Best part is it leaves a tighter and ironically more uniform pocket, since the pocket below the crimp is already uniform (for a given headstamp, at least) and can't get jacked up or enlarged.

    So I know a hundred people have posted about how fast and easy a countersink tool is compared to any other method. Thanks. But I wish I'd known it was BETTER than reaming. Now I feel like all my previously decrimped brass is inferior. :)
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2012
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