Quantcast

223 Varget question

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by layusn1, Feb 20, 2007.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. layusn1

    layusn1 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2006
    Messages:
    405
    I have 200 rounds of various recipes loaded to test IMR 4895 and I bought a lb of Varget to test with the same recipes. I am using the bulk 55gr Win bullets. I've searched around the forum a bit and from what I've gathered I may do better to go to Sportsmans Warehouse and buy the 250 pack of 69gr Noslers for that powder...is that the general consensus? I'm using a Rock River AR15 with a 1:9 twist in case that matters. I'm also limited to 100 yards at my range so I don't really need anything exotic. At $20 a lb I would rather use it where it shines and spend the extra cash on some quality bullets for some really good loads. If thats the case, when I'm buying those 69s, what powder should I get for the 55s, other than IMR 4895. Im not worried about metering qualities because the wife spoiled me with a Lyman DPSII. Any input (and recipes for your suggested powder if your feeling super generous) will be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
     
  2. Ol` Joe

    Ol` Joe Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2004
    Messages:
    2,087
    Location:
    michigan
    I`ve been useing Varget with Nosler 55 gr BTs for a long time now in my 223. This combo shoots better in my M70 HV then the heavier bullets I`ve tried (60/70 gr) even though it has a 1/9 twist. You never know until you try, just what YOUR gun will prefer.
     
  3. Grump

    Grump Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2003
    Messages:
    1,340
    Location:
    Las Vegas, NV
    If you're limited to 100 yards, you should consider saving a few more bucks and trying both the 52-gr HPBT match bullets and the regular 53-gr flatbase HP varmint bullets. They often shoot just fine out of fast twists, and at 100 yards, you need none of the wind-bucking advantages of 69-to-77-gr bullets (for magazine length) or 80-+gr bullets (cheater long-loaded for single shot use) unless you're shooting a competition and the wind is 20 mph or more AND variable.
     
  4. HSMITH

    HSMITH Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2002
    Messages:
    4,933
    I didn't have good luck at all with Varget until I got near the top of the data in an 8 twist AR. It wanted some pressure, and once I got some pressure it really worked well. I use it with 52 to 70 grain bullets, and in every case my rifle wants to be at or near the top of the data to shoot it well.
     
  5. layusn1

    layusn1 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2006
    Messages:
    405
    I thought less than 55gr in a 1:9 would not stabilize and keyhole. Is that not the case? If not, what bullet/powder would you suggest?
     
  6. wanderinwalker

    wanderinwalker Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2003
    Messages:
    2,229
    Location:
    SW NH
    You're thinking of the heavier than 55gr bullets in the 1-12" twist rifles. I know TC makes their .223 Encore barrels wth a 1-14" twist, which would limit you to 55gr and lighter bullets.

    At any rate, with Varget I suggest a heavy 68+ gr .224" bullet and CCI BR4 primers. I've had great luck running Varget for heavy bullet .223 loads out of AR-15, especially with those "cheater" 80gr loads at 600 yards! ;) Also works well with 77gr bullets, but your 1-9" twist likely won't stabilize them, so I wouldn't put any money into getting a big batch of them.

    Of course, the standby accuracy load for Varget and a 69gr is 24.5gr for many, many people and rifles. Not as hot as most can go, but reliably consistent.

    I like to shoot 52gr HPBTs from my 1-7" AR (Service Rifle match-ready rig), but for that use I prefer Win 748 and a CCI 450 primer. At 26gr of powder those bullets aren't driven fast enough to "blow up" and make nice neat groups at 100 yards.
     
  7. hickbob

    hickbob Member

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2006
    Messages:
    23
    Location:
    Southeast Texas
    I have a High Standard AR15 with 1-9" twist. If you want a cheap bullet with decent accuracy you could try 55gr Sierra Varminters with 26.5gr of Varget. I can get .5 moa on a good day.
    You can also try 68gr Hornady Match BTHP with 25.5gr Varget. I pulled off a 3/8" group @ 100yd with it.
    Your milage may vary
     
  8. layusn1

    layusn1 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2006
    Messages:
    405
    I decided to see how 52gr HPBT match bullets will do in my rifle but I opted for 50 rounds of HSM reloads for $12.00 instead of $14.00 for 100 Speer 52gr HPBTs plus primers, powder and loading time. I figure if they don't work well, I didn't invest much time and I come out of the deal with 50 more cases to load instead of frustration.
     
  9. wanderinwalker

    wanderinwalker Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2003
    Messages:
    2,229
    Location:
    SW NH
    Sounds like a good plan. Let us know how it goes!
     
  10. layusn1

    layusn1 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2006
    Messages:
    405
    I loaded up some rounds tonight...27.0, 27.2, 27.4, and 27.6 grains of Varget under the Win 55gr FMJBT bullets with an OAL of 2.245. The cases were FULL at 27.6 and I tapped them on the tabletop to try to settle the powder. I have never loaded a compressed load and I really don't want to blow up my AR. I have heard people suggest 28.0 grains with an OAL of 2.240. Is 28 grains safe and if it is, how do you get it in there?
     
  11. hickbob

    hickbob Member

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2006
    Messages:
    23
    Location:
    Southeast Texas
    My Speers manual shows 27gr Varget @ col 2.215" to be max load.
     
  12. layusn1

    layusn1 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2006
    Messages:
    405
    The bottle says 27.5 at 2.200. I assume the loader manual is being extra safe because its not their powder and I assume the bottle is being safe because its their powder. Several people have mentioned 28 but I dont want to push it. I would rather shoot the 27.6 and look at the primers. Im sure if Im seating .045 over the recommended than I should be safe at that load but I will check the cases after each group as I move up the scale. Im certainly not opposed to pulling bullets if I didnt load them safely and I'm more than happy to take an acceptable load with less powder (less $$).

    Please dont take this as arguing with the above response. I very much appreciate the answer, thank you.
     
  13. hickbob

    hickbob Member

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2006
    Messages:
    23
    Location:
    Southeast Texas
    oh no. I did not take it as arguing. i just happened to have one of my manuals next to the pc and figured I would tell ya. My other manuals are out in the reloading shed (too lazy to go get em and look).
     
  14. layusn1

    layusn1 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2006
    Messages:
    405
    Good deal, I do appreciate the input.
     
  15. taliv

    taliv Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2004
    Messages:
    24,574
    use a longer drop tube
     
  16. Ol` Joe

    Ol` Joe Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2004
    Messages:
    2,087
    Location:
    michigan
    I wouldn`t bet on it. The extra may or may not help. Think of Weatherby with their 5 miles of free bore. The purpose of it is to LOWER pressures. Then too, are you now touching or in the lands? That will cause them to jump quickly. There is more to it then just loading long.

    BTW; I quit at 25.8 grs Varget with mine useing Rem 7 1/2 primers and Nosler 55gr BTs @2.310" in a 1-9 twist, M70 HV. This has the bullet < / = 0.005", from touching in my rifle. and is about 0.050" over SAAMI max COL. I dropped back to 25gr. At 25.8 grs primers flattened and 25.5gr wasn`t as accurate. Nosler recommends 25 grs max with the same primer and bullet in a 1/12" twist. Yep twist matters too in some instances. I`d expected higher pressures then the book with COL and twist considered, but it "seems" they are very close.........YMMV
     
  17. layusn1

    layusn1 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2006
    Messages:
    405
    Well, being a big fan of all of my body parts and my AR which I love so much, I decided to go ahead and pull the rounds I loaded. It was only 80 rounds so no big deal. I did have to sacrifice 40 primers though as compressing the load seemed to embed the grains in the Federal primers. Oh well, out about $1.50 in primers but safe to load another day. So, I am going to save the Varget and try them on 69 grain Noslers some day. This weekends experiment will involve the 200 rounds I loaded with the H4895 (4 lots of 50...4 different primers and 5 different powder weights) and some 52gr hollow point boat tail match bullets from HSM. I have received many suggestions that the 52s might just do the trick since I cant go out past 100 yards anyway. I want to go pick up another powder tomorrow morning for the Win 55gr bullets though so I am thinking W748 or Benchmark...they seem to be well thought of in the 52-55gr bullet range.
     
  18. ranger53

    ranger53 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2006
    Messages:
    57
    Location:
    NC
    Believe it or not, I've used varget and I'm glad I don't have anymore of it.:barf: It just didn't perform well in mine 223. My best loads have come from IMR3031 and IMR4198, but that is what mine really likes!:D
    tommy
     
  19. billp

    billp member

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2007
    Messages:
    182
    varget for .223

    I bought a pound of varget as first powder to try with new stevens .223 using both v-max 55 gr and ss109 bullets.

    What attracted me to varget was its slow burning rate, would about fill the case and ADVERTIZED attribute that it is REALITIVLY temperature insensitive.

    My one reloading disaster in about 40 years of reloading was developing a fairly hot, but not unreasonable, load for a .22-250 in Pullman WA during the winter.

    Then shooting the same load at about 80 degrees F.

    I saved the cartridge.

    [​IMG]

    I was shooting a remingon model 788 .22-250.

    I cartridge didn't extract. So I used my boot heel to try to open the bolt.

    And broke of the brazed-on bolt.

    I explained problem to remington when I returned the gun for repair.

    Remington fixed for free.

    I plan to load about two rounds each from 25 to 27 gr each for the varget and 55 gr v-max.

    And 24 to 26 for the ss109's in 2 gr increments.

    Then fire into a dirt bank to check for pressure problems.

    When I discover I am relatively safe, then I will load 5 rounds each at two grain increments for the albuquerque shooting range.

    Any comments that would be useful?

    Senior citizen
     
  20. agd1953

    agd1953 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2007
    Messages:
    213
    Location:
    Roy, Utah
    billp, did you mean .2 grain increments. I don't think I would jump up in 2 full grain increments, to me that asking for trouble:uhoh:
     
  21. billp

    billp member

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2007
    Messages:
    182
  22. billp

    billp member

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2007
    Messages:
    182
  23. agd1953

    agd1953 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2007
    Messages:
    213
    Location:
    Roy, Utah
    billp, checking both 60 and 63 grain bullets in my Lyman manual I would think the the 62 gr ss109 that a starting load of 24.0 grains of varget would be about right.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice