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.223 Varmint gun. Indecision may or may not be my problem.

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by 12 Volt Man, Mar 11, 2005.

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  1. 12 Volt Man

    12 Volt Man Member

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    I have thought about setting up a somewhat affordable .223 Varmint gun for some time. My plans have been to get a CZ 527 with the heavy barrel and regular walnut stock. Top it with a Mueller scope. Then I certianly would need Harris Bi-pod. I think this would be a good setup for me. Sure it wouldn't be all tactical looking, but I bet it would shoot with the best of them. Total cost for that setup would be somewhere around $800.00, when you include scope, rings, and bi-pod. The Savage 10FP is also a strong candidate if I go this route.

    But then there is the more expensive evil option which I have been considering over the last few days. The AR15 varmint setup. :evil: I do not have a ton of knowlege in this area yet. My limited research so far has let me to the RRA upper. The A4 RRA has a stainless barrel, is chambered in .223 rather than 5.56. It comes in lengths of 16, 18, 20, and 24 inches. I hoped someone could help with with which is the optimum barrel length. They have a 1in 8 twist in the rifling.I found a 20 inch upper for $489.00. There are many options for the lower, including buying a stripped lower and building one from parts. I don't have the tools for building so I have looked at compete lowers. Looks like I can get a complete RRA lower with 2 stage trigger and A2 stock for around $300.00. Then it looks like I would top it with a Super Sniper scope to keep the cost down and still get a fairly decent scope. Those run about $300.00. I assume I would need the RRA Hi Rise Base with Rings for about $40.00. Then ofcoarse the Harris bi-pod for $80.00 or so. Grand total for the RRA AR Varmint $1209.00. This seems like a very expensive rifle to me. I know that much more can be spent. I have never spent that much on a rifle yet. The fun it would generate I'm sure would be worth it. It is possible that I would sell a couple of handguns to finance this if I go this route.

    Opinions or suggestions????
     
  2. jrobb45

    jrobb45 Member

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    I have been similarly conflicted for the past few months. The AR's with the stainless barrels and float tubes look nice, but get pricey with the add ons. Neighbor has one; has about $2000 in it and it will shoot sub moa. I don't have that kind of loot laying around. I think the bolt guns are the sensible wat to go; CZ, Tikka and Savage are all good; just choose your price range.

    jrobb
     
  3. Kramer Krazy

    Kramer Krazy Member

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    I bought my Ruger M77 MKII in .223 back in 1993 for about $450, but you can still get them through Walmart for about $560. I threw on a Harris bipod and a close-out Simmons 6-24x50mm scope ($69), recently. You can have less than $800 in a similar set-up and have just as much fun........The problem I have with my ARs is that I tend to go through 3-4 times as much ammo in the same amount of time at the range. :D
     
  4. Lennyjoe

    Lennyjoe Member

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    I was also conteplating putting a Varmit upper on my AR-15 but decided to get another rifle instead. Besides, I would want a Jewell trigger as well as heavy 24" barrel, pod ect........By the time I did all that, the upper and trigger would of cost over $500 easy.

    I finally came to the decision to get a Savage 12 series Varmit rifle. It comes with the heavy barrel and accu-trigger and can be had for around $450 for us left handed folks. I decided to get it in 22-250 instead of .223.

    I'd rather have another rifle anyway, so thats the coures I decided on.
    [​IMG]
     
  5. mustanger98

    mustanger98 Member

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    I'd get a Savage Model 11 (hunter series) and change the rear sight for a Williams FP with target knobs.
     
  6. Coltdriver

    Coltdriver Member

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    What kind of varmints you gonna shoot???

    An AR is a great coyote shooter. And they are plenty accurate, even with a 16 inch barrel out to a couple hundred yards. Second shots are quick and easy.

    The higher twist rate is only if you want to shoot bullets heavier than 55 grains.

    I like to get my varmint rounds up around 3200 to 3400 fps with a hornady or sierra bullet. I have only shot those from a 1/12 Ruger. I have wondered if at very high velocity the quicker twist might not vaporize the bullet.

    In any case, for pure varmint fun I'd get an AR. You can get a starter and then build yourself a varmint barrelled upper. But carrying around a 6 pound rifle that shoots well to begin with is kind of habit forming :D
     
  7. Black Snowman

    Black Snowman Member

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    I'm continously impressed with Kamicosmos' Bushmaster Varminter. Very very accurate and can be routinely found for under $900 new.
     
  8. 12 Volt Man

    12 Volt Man Member

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    I am going to shoot prairie dogs, jack rabbits and the occasional coyote or fox. Probably punch a fair amount of paper too. I would also like to test out the max distance 500 yard shots would be cool. Majority of shots would be 50 to 200 yards.

    I found something that might be interesting.
    -A varmint upper with a 1 in 10 twist barrell. I guess I could shoot 40 to 60 grain bullets through that. What are the pros and cons of a 1 in 10 barrel???
     
  9. g56

    g56 Member

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    I built an AR15 with a 24" bull barrel with a 1-8 twist, works great, couldn't ask it to do any better, 1-8 is probably the most popular twist for the AR15 Varmint Rifles. I built this rifle for about $700 not counting the scope. RRA barrels are normally Wylde chambers, it's a compromise chambering between .223 and 5.56, my rifle is 5.56.

    Here's the best group to date:

    40547989.jpg
     
  10. 12 Volt Man

    12 Volt Man Member

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    So if the Wylde chamber is a compromise. Can you shoot both .223 and 5.56 through it?
     
  11. g56

    g56 Member

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    Yes
     
  12. Mike Hull

    Mike Hull Member

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    If you get the CZ 527 Varmint Kevlar, you get the 1-9 twist rifling, the others are 1-12 twist.
    The 1-9 is the best all around, IMO, and you can shoot from 50gr, to 77gr bullets with pretty good accuracy, although 69-75 grainers will probably shoot best. Heavier bullet=longer range. Just a thought.

    http://www.cz-usa.com/01.detail.php?id=13
     
  13. mustanger98

    mustanger98 Member

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    I can vouch for the difference (for the better) from 1:12 twist down to 1:9. I conducted a test with Hornady 68gr BTHPs running 2600fps in both twist rates. The 1:12 twist allowed the bullets to keyhole at 50yds (they were also spread out like a shot pattern) while the 1:9 stabilized them and grouped tighter than 55gr had in that same 1:9 twist barrel. That's my experience.
     
  14. flip180

    flip180 Member

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    I bought a Remington 700 VLS in a .223 a couple of months ago topped off with a Leupold VX-II 4-12X40 AO scope with a harris bipod and couldn't be happier. Now, I am getting the barrel floated, action bedded and triger job performed. But out of the box it doesn't do too bad with .55gr. WWB at 50 yards. I'll start reloading soon and hope to shoot regular groops at 100 yards that look as good as this 50 yard target.
    rangereport002.gif
    Flip
     
  15. P0832177

    P0832177 member

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    My vote is to get a Savage in 223 comes with 1-9 twist barrel, should run around 450 or so and as funds allow get the B&C Duramax stock or Sharp Shooter Stock to replace it. Then I would get a solid mount, ie Farrell. Then I would get some good glass buying the SWFA Super Sniper is okay, so is the Bushnell 10X 3200. I would suggest a Sightron 4-16 in Loopy PRW rings. This will get you set up under a grand.

    Now, a person can get NM RRA lower and Varmint upper cheaper seperately then together. A person can put something together for right around a grand, too.

    RRA A2 lower with stock trigger runs 260 plus transfer fee
    RRA A4 upper 1-8 24 or 20 upper complete runs about 550.
    RRA once pc scope mount 50 bucks.
    Bushnell 10X 160 or gets you in business in short order under a grand.

    You can upgrade things as funds allow.

    I vote 223 as it can be had cheap if you do not reload! I would not get 1-10 upper
     
  16. Kamicosmos

    Kamicosmos Member

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    Bushmaster Varminter is my crazy accurate quarter bore rifle.

    Mine has the factory 24" heavy free floated barrel, 1-9 twist. I have it on a Harris bi-pod and a BSA 6-24x50mm scope. I know I know, crappy scope. But so far, it has been great, and I haven't been able to justify shelling out the money for a better scope yet. Maybe once I move beyond 100 yards and start shooting at unknown ranges/moving varmints...

    I am currently shooting 55 grain bullets through it, and I can shoot .5 MOA pretty much all day (Off the bipod, I haven't sandbagged the gun yet). I think the rifle is capable of even tighter groups. This spring I plan on experimenting with 68 grain bullets to see how they compare to the 55 grainers.
     
  17. Art Eatman

    Art Eatman Administrator Staff Member

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    If you're only gonna shoot few-shot groups at a slow pace, or if you're gonna shoot varmints on a "shot here, now, and a shot there, a bit later..." you can do just fine with a medium or light barrel.

    Long strings of fairly rapid fire, or lots and lots of prairie dogs in a short period, you pretty much need the heavy barrel.

    I bought a little Ruger 77 Mk II sporter in .223. 1/2 MOA for a three-shot group. I wouldn't expect it to keep that going at a prairie dog town, but it's great for coyote hunting.

    :), Art
     
  18. bad LT

    bad LT Member

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    Definitely the AR15,

    You never know when you might come across waves of attacking gophers (gopher wave attack?)
     
  19. CB900F

    CB900F Member

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    12 Volt;

    A couple of considerations that I thought of; If you don't reload, you're gonna buy a lot of cheap ammo with a semi. Trouble is, cheap ammo is just that, cheap. Maybe some will work just fine as far as functioning & accuracy go. But how much do you want to test to find it? And how accurate is 'good enough' for you? How long till the smaller hole syndrome strikes? In other words, better factor in a Dillon in the foreseeable future.

    Another possible option is the Daly (Zastava) mini-Mauser currently being imported again. Should be well under $500.00 retail.

    900F
     
  20. 12 Volt Man

    12 Volt Man Member

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    Well, I found a deal too good to pass on. Even though you folks great advice has led me to believe I should get a 1-8 or 1-9 twist in the barrel, I went another route.
    This one has a 1-12 twist. I am sure it will be fine to play with for this summer. Maybe I can explode some varmints like in those Dog Be Gone videos.

    Anyway..... It is a CZ 527 Laminate. Topped with a Bushnell Elite 3200 5-15x50. The current owner has only 200 rounds through it. All for under $600.00. :)

    Here is a picture of my new rifle..... Should have it in a week or so. I even get a bi pod with it.

    [​IMG]
     
  21. Lennyjoe

    Lennyjoe Member

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    Sweet set up. Now you need to reload some rounds with different powders and bullets and bring the pattern down to dime size. ;)
     
  22. 12 Volt Man

    12 Volt Man Member

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    I should get into reloading. Problem is, everytime I save up enough money for some reloading equipment, I find out it is also enough money for another gun.
     
  23. standingbear

    standingbear Member

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    what loads are you using in your M77 Art?



    Im using the blackhills ballistic tip 51 grain vmax.shoots pretty good,fairly flatter than the standard hp ammo I was using as a test and makes an audible sound when it hits a groundhog.those loads made a chipmonk dissappear at 40 yards that was setting on an ol tree stump.I cant wait to try them on a coyote. :)
     
  24. Lennyjoe

    Lennyjoe Member

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    I shopped around and purchased items a little at a time. Took me about 3 months to get everything up for reloading.

    Its well worth the wait. I cant seem to stay out of the reloading area and my yard is suffering because of it. ;)
     
  25. CZguy

    CZguy Member

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    1 in 9 twist

    12 Volt Man,

    The rifle you have pictured is a CZ 527 Varmint with a laminated stock. This rifle has a 1 in 9 twist. The 1 in 12 twist you refer to is the 527 American.

    The one you have is excellent for what you want to use it for. :)
     
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