.22LR for physically challenged ?

[bannockburn]

I remember Beretta use to make the Model 86, a single stack .380 with a tip-up barrel. Very pricey though; perhaps a Taurus Model BR or PLY-SS in .22 might be a more affordable alternative.

 

[mavracer]

What 380 has she shot?
My all steel Colt Govt 380 is very mild compared to my LCP and I can't see it being any more painful to shoot than my Beretta Bobcat is with mini mags.
Lots of older 32 and 380 medium sized guns out there that are pretty easy on the hand CZ 82/83 and Beretta 84. Also I wouldn't count out a steel j frame 38 shooting 148gr target wadcutters.

 

[javjacob]

http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=10211690&postcount=25

I was going to suggest the S&W 351PD also since the 22mag is very potent yet also very manageable recoil wise. Only problem is the 351PD is on the expensive side.
There are other brands that are cheaper though like Taurus and Charter Arms but not so sure on their quality.

 

[jstert]

stay away from taurus and beretta tip ups. slide is impossible to rack if you want to load a follow-on mag. then you must strip a round from the mag to manually load, way too cumbersome.

i wish ruger would make its 22lr lcr with 3" barrel and a hammer. even so, for a disabled person, the current 22lr lcr, that gives me 3" groups at 3meters shredding a 3" phone book, should be effective for anyone's defence.

 

[Seven High]

Is it possible to take her to a firing range that rents guns? That may be enlightening. Personally, I would recommend the Ruger LCR in 22lr.

 

[GEM]

1. If a revolver, can a person handle the trigger. I had a SW 317 and it's trigger was ridiculous.

2. If a semi - can the person manipulate it? I have a Buckmark that is easy to rack but can the person in question.

3. The gun must be reliable. The small 22s like a PT-22 or Beretta 21 are notorious jammers. I know someone will say that they put rounds through theirs. Will the person in question put 100s of rounds through their gun?

4. In similar cases, a single action like a Ruger Bearcat has been successful. Can the person manipulate it? Some find it easier than others.

5. Are stopping power, malfunctions and reloading that important? That's a hard question. Most DGUs are deterrent with no shots fired. In those where shots are fired, that usually stops the crime. Yes, there are determined attackers that continue but that number is swamped by the first two scenarios.

6. 32s are very mild. The guns are hard to find.

The person must shoot the gun in question. There's no way around that. If one buys it for them, be sure to be able to make it your gun if it doesn't work. Don't have a tantrum if the person doesn't like it.

 

[TruthTellers]

Taurus 941. It's a snub 9 shot .22 Magnum. Quality defense ammo made for .22 Mag like PDX1, Gold Dots, or Hornady Critical Defense should function extremely well, better than .22 LR at least.

The tough thing is finding the ammo.

For a centerfire alternative, I'd say the Beretta 950. It has a tip up barrel so no racking of the slide is necessary and FMJ .25 ACP is easy to find online.

 

[roaddog28]

A lot of women just don't care for shooting any type of handgun. My wife is one such person. But she was concern for her safety one time when riding a commuter bus to and from work everyday. The trip was 70 miles a day round trip and she had to walk up to five blocks to her work place. The neighborhood
was not the best. Since she did not want a handgun, I did some research and located pepper spray used by our police department by officers. I can only buy the spray at a gun range that the police department uses for practice and qualifications. She still carries the pepper spray and feels more comfortable than trying to handle a handgun.
Its something to think about.

 

[aarondhgraham]

We can suggest gun models all day long,,,

We can suggest gun models all day long,,,
But in some cases a gun is simply not the answer.

If a person won't practice and train at least a little bit,,,
Then any semi-auto is a poor choice for them.

That leaves revolvers,,,
But if the person can't pull a trigger,,,
Some type of pepper spray or mace is the only option.

Previously I posted that my sister has very weak hands,,,
But she wanted a gun so my S&W 34 snubby was it.

At first she said it was too hard to pull the trigger,,,
"Don't you have something that would be easier to shoot?".

Here's where I took a hard stance,,,
There really isn't anything easier than that gun,,,
It's trigger is butter smooth and is not very heavy at all.

So my answer to her was something like,,,
"Nope, that's as easy as it gets."

I sort of shamed her into facing reality,,,
But she did "wake up" and decided to practice a bit,,,
Within one 50 round box of shells she was doing just fine with it.

The cold hard reality of the situation is,,,
Your friend may not be able to handle any gun at all.

In her case good pepper spray or mace might be her better option.

Aarond

.

 

[Hunter2011]

I have never used pepper spray before. Is the button to press not just as hard to do than pulling a trigger? A assume it can't be too easy, otherwise it can get pressed in a handbag or so?

 

[Tactical Lever]

Will she even notice the recoil if she has to use it?

A Beretta 75 might work. Very handy, easy to use and light. I would rather see someone with a bit more punch though. Like a GP 100 loaded with 38 Spl.

 

[jrmiddleton425]

Re: the original post: if the woman in question is physically capable of driving a car, she has the physical ability to manipulate and fire any handgun she chooses to.

I speak from some experience when I say it takes significantly less physical ability to fire a handgun.

I have no trouble shooting anything up to .44 Special, but I have a LOT of trouble driving a car.

 

[MaterDei]

A 22LR for somebody with arthritis to have fun at the range is a very good idea.

A 22LR for somebody with arthritis for self defense is a very bad idea, IMO.

To use a 22LR in a defensive situation would require good muscle control and multiple, well grouped shots to be effective. Not what somebody with arthritis would likely excel at.

I would recommend a somewhat large, 9mm gun for her. A Beretta 92fs or a CZ75 would be ideal. Decent triggers, little recoil due to the size.

 

[Panzerschwein]

There is a new Ruger's GP100 revolving belt pistol chambered in the .22 rimfire metallic cartridge that would be most ideal for the lady in question, methinks.

 

[Miky]

I don't know guys....to me this sounds like a situation where a gun is not the answer. Or at least, a gun is not the answer she is ready for.

Guns are used for fighting, you must have the fighting mindset before a gun will do you a bit of good. A gun is useless if you aren't mentally prepared to say "Thats it...I'm going to end it for this <removed>." I might be a wrong, but I don't see a woman (or man) as frail as you describe being able to make that decision and execute effectively.

I forsee a loaded gun tucked away in a purse or glove box that, because of nerves, lack of training, and the realities of action vs reaction, isn't drawn when the chips are down. Or, even worse, the gun is drawn ineffectively and taken from its owner.

Remember, you can call it "self defense" all you want, but what you are really doing is killing somebody for a good reason, if you arent prepared to do that, caliber, action type, and ease of use don't mean "squat".

I know people like the one you decribe. To them, I would recommmend finding another route to work, carpoooling with a co-worker, or finding a dog sitter close to work that will allow commuting to work with a Rottweiler in the front seat. I see all of these as being better options.

If you do recommend a gun, I would also recommend a place where she can receive some training, and not just the "equal height - equal light" NRA kind. She neeeds training in marksmanship and the "never quit" mindset that must be present to prevail in a dangerous situation.

 

[TruthTellers]

Milky is absolutely right here, the first attempted solution is to try to avoid having to use a gun altogether and if that can be achieved by going a different way to avoid trouble, that's the answer.

If there's no way around it and the determination has been made to carry a defensive weapon, then the next question is is a gun the right choice?

 

[Hunter2011]

Milky is absolutely right here, the first attempted solution is to try to avoid having to use a gun altogether and if that can be achieved by going a different way to avoid trouble, that's the answer.

If there's no way around it and the determination has been made to carry a defensive weapon, then the next question is is a gun the right choice?

I don't know. Just remember that people aged 86+ have used guns successfully to defend themselves. At 86 you are not really at your best anymore. Anybody pushed in a corner, will be able and strong enough to pull the trigger. Handguns is a great equalizer.

 

[Miky]

I don't know. Just remember that people aged 86+ have used guns successfully to defend themselves. At 86 you are not really at your best anymore. Anybody pushed in a corner, will be able and strong enough to pull the trigger. Handguns is a great equalizer.

Hunter, you're 100% right. Anybody who can drive a car has the physical strength required to shoot and control a 9mm or .380. They just might not have the desire personality to do it.

That isn't a bad thing at all. Some people just dislike everything about guns, the noise, the recoil, the whole idea of them. Some people don't have an aggressive bone in their body.

This person's assertion that she can't tolerate a 9mm or .380 caused me to wonder if she is the type of person who would struggle to make the aggressive decision to draw, point and shoot. If she would struggle to make that decision, I think she should consider the possibilty that a gun might be an option, but might not be the most effective one.

 

[45_auto]

if the woman in question is physically capable of driving a car, she has the physical ability to manipulate and fire any handgun she chooses to.

Anybody who can drive a car has the physical strength required to shoot and control a 9mm or .380. They just might not have the desire personality to do it.

I keep seeing this "driving a car" thing compared to firing a handgun quote. What part of driving a car requires the kind of grip strength comparable to racking a slide on a semi-auto or finger strength compared to pulling a trigger on a double action revolver?

 

[danez71]

I keep seeing this "driving a car" thing compared to firing a handgun quote. What part of driving a car requires the kind of grip strength comparable to racking a slide on a semi-auto or finger strength compared to pulling a trigger on a double action revolver?

Not much of a relationship IMO. And I do have some relatable 1st hand experience.

I have bad arthritis in my feet. I can drive for hours and hours with no significant problems. I can walk a couple hours with with out too much problems.

If I run, debilitating pain within seconds because of the extra impact and torsional forces

It's bad enough that right now I'm recovering from surgery to fuse a joint that is just too painful for daily life.


If my arthritic feet were hands, pulling a stiff double action trigger would be tough to say the least. Shooting a 38 would be a 1 shot deal.

Shooting a 22 semiauto would be the best option for me based on my experience with arthritis in my feet. I could shoot that for hours.

But everyone will be a little different.

Point being, the shooter needs to manipulate it before decisions are made based on 3rd party non relevant, no experience, Internet advice.

ETA: I want to emphasize that arthritis is too personal of a condition to have someone else make the decision.

I've heard the LCR has a nice soft non stacking trigger... better than any other 22lr revolver. So that may be an option.

My experience with all other 22lr revolvers I've tried is that double action trigger WILL become too tough to pull with control.

Remember, arthritis gets worse over time.

I've lived with mine worsening over about 20 yrs. But in the last couple years the deterioration has been more rapid.

I would recommend a SR22 because of my 1st hand experience. But I think any reliable 22lr semi auto with a single action trigger is a good choice for the circumstances.


I've never met a person who has fired a 22mag from a pistol that honestly said it was a soft shooter. It's always comments like snappy, loud, a lot of flash.

Snappy is not the friend of arthritis. Coupled with a long stiff DA trigger, imo, is a poor choice.

 

[Merle1]

Hunter, you're 100% right. Anybody who can drive a car has the physical strength required to shoot and control a 9mm or .380. They just might not have the desire personality to do it.

That isn't a bad thing at all. Some people just dislike everything about guns, the noise, the recoil, the whole idea of them. Some people don't have an aggressive bone in their body.

This person's assertion that she can't tolerate a 9mm or .380 caused me to wonder if she is the type of person who would struggle to make the aggressive decision to draw, point and shoot. If she would struggle to make that decision, I think she should consider the possibilty that a gun might be an option, but might not be the most effective one.

I suspect that noise and the sudden, sharp recoil is a problem for some. See #45 above.

 

[JShirley]

I would use a round nose Mini Mag. 22 hollowpoints are woefully lacking in penetration.

From a handgun? Evidence?

John

 

[danez71]

From a handgun? Evidence?

John

In the tests that Ive seen, the solid round nose did penetrate more than hollow point.

Presumably, not because the HP expanded, but because the RN weighs more.


Neither is "good" and the difference wasn't that much (If I remember right, the delta was like 4" but the average was only about 1.5").


Im having trouble finding it right now on my computer but BBTI had some info, the NAA forum, and some 22 place out of Nevada (I think Vegas) has some side by side testing too.

 

[jimherb]

If she could handle .32 acp, I would recommend a Beretta Tomcat. Semi-auto, but you don't have to work a slide to chamber a round.

 

[Miky]

Not much of a relationship IMO. And I do have some relatable 1st hand experience.

I have bad arthritis in my feet. I can drive for hours and hours with no significant problems. I can walk a couple hours with with out too much problems.

If I run, debilitating pain within seconds because of the extra impact and torsional forces

It's bad enough that right now I'm recovering from surgery to fuse a joint that is just too painful for daily life.


If my arthritic feet were hands, pulling a stiff double action trigger would be tough to say the least. Shooting a 38 would be a 1 shot deal.

Shooting a 22 semiauto would be the best option for me based on my experience with arthritis in my feet. I could shoot that for hours.

But everyone will be a little different.

Point being, the shooter needs to manipulate it before decisions are made based on 3rd party non relevant, no experience, Internet advice.

ETA: I want to emphasize that arthritis is too personal of a condition to have someone else make the decision.

I've heard the LCR has a nice soft non stacking trigger... better than any other 22lr revolver. So that may be an option.

My experience with all other 22lr revolvers I've tried is that double action trigger WILL become too tough to pull with control.

Remember, arthritis gets worse over time.

I've lived with mine worsening over about 20 yrs. But in the last couple years the deterioration has been more rapid.

I would recommend a SR22 because of my 1st hand experience. But I think any reliable 22lr semi auto with a single action trigger is a good choice for the circumstances.


I've never met a person who has fired a 22mag from a pistol that honestly said it was a soft shooter. It's always comments like snappy, loud, a lot of flash.

Snappy is not the friend of arthritis. Coupled with a long stiff DA trigger, imo, is a poor choice.

Well your experience is far more relevant than mine. I apologize for the overly simple analogy with the car.

the message remains the same, if you cant pull a double action trigger, or cycle the action on a 9mm or 380, you need to take steps to protect yourself far beyond buying a .22 handgun. Throwing a gun in the glovebox and hoping you rise to the occasion when the time comes isn't a solid strategy for anyone, especially somebody who suffers from a dissability in their hands.

A .22 is a good start, but make sure it isn't the only precaution.