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.22LR stopping power?

Discussion in 'Handguns: General Discussion' started by marklbucla, Sep 16, 2003.

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  1. marklbucla

    marklbucla Member

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    First off, I understand that the .22LR is nothing compared to 9mm or .45 ACP, placement is key, and that it's better than nothing.

    So, how well does a premium .22LR Hollow point fired from a handgun perform on its own? Is it still "completely inadequate" like some say the .25 ACP is?
     
  2. cordex

    cordex Member

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    Fired from what length barrel?
    Itty bitty pocket pistol?
    Full-sized pistol?

    (whoops, reread question and pulled the last option)
     
  3. spacemanspiff

    spacemanspiff Senior Member

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    not to hijack or nothing, but one moron claimed he like the p22 because 'its got stopping power and its mad concealable'.
    yeah it has stopping power. if you duct tape it to a brick and throw it at a BG. :rolleyes: :D

    http://www.chuckhawks.com/handgun_power_chart.htm
     
  4. Double Naught Spy

    Double Naught Spy Sus Venator

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    And the reason you want to know about a .22 hollowpoint over round nosed ball is ...

    ...because .22 hollowpoints are known for such massive expansion?

    Aside from being small, what makes the .22 lr not be a good defensive round is that rimfire loads are not known for their great reliability. A .25 acp may not be a good round, but like other centerfire loads, the concern is not with ignition.

    As noted, the query is inadequate. How effective is a .22 lr from a handgun?

    What length barrel?
    What type of .22 lr ammo ( there are a variety of loads)
    At what distance?
    At what type of target?
    Under what circumstances?
     
  5. Edward429451

    Edward429451 member

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    Some may disagree but I think that solids are the way to go with a 22 for self defense for the penetration factor. If its all you got you want as much penetration as possible.

    Love them CCI MiniMags.:cool:
     
  6. mete

    mete Member

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    While the 22 has no stopping power it DOES have killing power . In fact it has a reputation of being worse than some bigger cartridges because when it enters the body it is very easily deflected. So the person may not even be aware of being hit but die a day or two later.
     
  7. Standing Wolf

    Standing Wolf Member in memoriam

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    Better a .22 than nothing.
     
  8. C.R.Sam

    C.R.Sam Moderator Emeritus

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    What mete said.

    Deadly, but terrible at stopping a threat.

    Sam
     
  9. Double Naught Spy

    Double Naught Spy Sus Venator

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    Better a .22 than nothing is right, but the comparison is at the wrong end of the scale. When compared against nothing, even a soiled kleenex is better. If you have time to get a gun, you have time to get something better for defense than a .22. It doesn't take much space to carry something larger than a .22 with the possible exception of NAA's smallest mini revolver. There are plenty of guns of larger calibers comparable to many of the .22s out there.

    I am not harping on you, Standing Wolf, only on those who rationalize carrying mouse guns as primary defense guns because they are "better than nothing." It takes VERY LITTLE to be better than nothing and 'better than nothing' is a sorry self defense justification for only carrying a gun or caliber that is not known to be effective. It is not difficult to surpass the standard when it is nothing.
     
  10. New_comer

    New_comer Member

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    If I see a 22LR pistol pointed at me, I'd definitely stop! :D


    Four of those equal a 44's cavity, witha lot more wound area to bleed from.


    So fire every bullet you have and get outta there. You just might hit something vital... ;)
     
  11. prezzz

    prezzz Member

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    Stopping power of a .22LR is very good..........................provided you have a 100 rd. mag.
     
  12. WonderNine

    WonderNine member

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    If you'll remember my ND experience the other week with a lowly Federal .22 long out of a Ruger Single Six, I have no doubt that a .22 long rifle will put the pain on.
     
  13. No4Mk1*

    No4Mk1* Member

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    I think the .22LR is underrated when you consider a pistol such as the Browning Buckmark. I can fire all 10 shots into a pie plate very fast. That is 10x 40 grain pieces of lead (that is 0.91 ounces) traveling at 1200 feet/second. Many claim this is lousy stopping power, but if you launch the same weight of lead at the same velocity from a shotgun it suddenly becomes an excellent stopper. I would prefer solids, but with .22LR you better choose whatever jams and fails to fire less- whatever brand works best for you.
    I still prefer larger rounds just like I wouldn't want to use a single shot 12 or 20 guage. More firepower is good.
     
  14. horge

    horge Member

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    If a .22 is so insignificant, there should be no problem getting volunteers among you to take one COM ---for my own 'stopping power' survey.

    Wait.. I'll settle for a thigh shot, guys!
    I'll even pay you!
    (Would THR subsidize my reseacrh?)

    :D
     
  15. fds5116

    fds5116 Member

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    look at one shooting - Hinckley shooting Reagan in 1981. Hink gets off 6 shots of 22lr. One hits Macarthy in the belly (Secret service guy, stepped in front of Reagan); another hits DC cop Delahanty in neck. One hits Brady in forehead; 2 miss; last one hits Reagan under arm, goes thru lung.

    Results: Macarthy drops to ground (probably can't believe he just stepped in front of a bullet);
    Delahanty goes down;
    Brady goes down - central nervous system hit;
    Reagan thinks his SS guy broke his ribs pushing him into the car.

    One true 'stop' from CNS hit;
    2 stops from ? (pain, psychological?)
    1 no stop (although Reagan was probably closer to death than the other 3 guys)

    Admittedly, that is against people who have little/no expectation of being in a fight, but it is a pretty good percentage, if you ask me.

    BTW, I use 45ACP.
     
  16. cordex

    cordex Member

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    Darn, shouldn't have sold my Calico.
    Specious reasoning.
    I don't want to stand in front of a BB gun either. Does that show that it has significant stopping power?
     
  17. Ala Dan

    Ala Dan Member in memoriam

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    Well, FWIW in my 20+ year's as a former LEO I've
    seen more people killled from a .22 LR Hollow Point;
    than I have any other caliber, bar none!:uhoh:

    One case that stands out in my mind is where my
    partner and I answered a "person down" call. When
    we arrived on the scene, one victim was laying in
    the drive-way shot in the stomach (belly button)
    with a .32 S&W Long; the other victim (and perp)
    was on the front poarch shot under his right arm
    with a .22 LR Hollow Point.

    The victim shot with the .32 S&W Long survived
    the shooting to live another day; the victim and
    or perp shot with the .22 LR Hollow Point was
    declared D.O.S. by the county corner.:rolleyes:

    So to anwer your question, YES the .22 LR Hollow
    Point can be very deadly; especially when a vital
    organ* is struck.

    *FootNote: In the above case, the .22 caliber
    round hit the perps heart; thus effectively putting
    him out of action.

    Best Wishes,
    Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member
     
  18. Climb14er

    Climb14er Member

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    I carried a Beretta 21A .22 LR for years. I might have been undergunned but I'd sure hate to get hit by one, two, three or more .22LR's at fairly close range.

    BTW, solid lead load is much 'better' than hollowpoints in this caliber.
     
  19. Cooter Brown

    Cooter Brown Member

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    .22?

    I've been shot with a .22 LR--trust me, it ain't no picnic. You don't want it. There's no glory and no background music there when they're messing around with your bones and that drain tube.

    If you can shoot a .22 pistol well, it will certainly work in a pinch for self defense. They are easier to hit with and, as previously observed with James Brady, a central nervous system hit will flat right-now drop a human. Period.

    I have a "last-ditch" (for use within 3 yards) .22 short Beretta Minx with CCI short hollow points, which I think is much more effective than a .25 acp. It really spits 'em out and tears 'em up.

    Use LR solids in winter for heavy clothing penetration and CCI Stingers when clothing penetration is not a consideration. :what:
     
  20. Dave T

    Dave T Member

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    Ala Dan, like the poster who wants us to take a COM hit from a 22, you confuse leatality with stopping. All calibers/weapons can be lethal. Many are unreliable in stopping an attack. The 22 certainly can kill an assailant but how much damage did he do before he died?
     
  21. Nero Steptoe

    Nero Steptoe member

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    How long did those three "sniper" victims last after suffering head shots from .22 l.r.?
     
  22. Ala Dan

    Ala Dan Member in memoriam

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    Greeting's Dave T-

    It's unclear in my case file as to the actual damage done
    by the perp before he expired? I can say this, my partner
    and I were on a "look-out" for this same perp; due to a
    previous 2nd degree assault occuring earlier in the day.
    The victim of that assault was struck in the head with
    the butt of a gun; but was treated by paramedics at
    the scene. By the time we found the perp, he had
    expired!

    FootNote: It is likely, that the perp shot the other
    victim that I mentioned in the previous post after he (himself)
    was shot, and before he died?

    Best Wishes,
    Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member
     
  23. telewinz

    telewinz Member

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    I have a friend that emptied a Phoenix HP22LR into an enraged 19 year old man at 10 feet (and decreasing). The guy dropped from all the torso hits (10?)and lived. My friend who target shoots with only 22's, 32's and 380 pocket pistols moved his CCW pistol up from a .22 to a P32. I am waiting for him to encounter another enraged man so that I can get a performance evaluation.:D
     
  24. Double Naught Spy

    Double Naught Spy Sus Venator

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    From No4Mk1*, "I can fire all 10 shots into a pie plate very fast. That is 10x 40 grain pieces of lead (that is 0.91 ounces) traveling at 1200 feet/second."

    I just love this sort of rationalization that is used to justify ineffective calibers being as good as more effective calibers. Yes, you can shoot a .22 lr Buckmark very quickly. Of course, you are assuming that the situation will allow you to shoot more than one round. For all sorts of reasons, people attempting self defense shooting may fail to get off more than one round. It may be due to a malfunction of the gun, malfunction of the ammo, change of the situation dynamic where the self defense shooter can no longer shoot because of a mitigating factor such as a bystander coming into the line of fire. It may be that the gun gets damaged, such as by the suspects incoming round. Or, it could be that you are injured by the suspect in some manner where you cannot shoot such as a wound to the gun hand, arm, shoulder of the gun hand. Nerve or bone damage may cause this.

    While a single .22 round or all 10 from the Buckmark may hit the bad guy, Dave T is right in inquiring as to just how much damage the bad guy may do to you before he succombs.
    ---

    From Nero Steptoe, " How long did those three "sniper" victims last after suffering head shots from .22 l.r.? "

    Supposedly, the shooter is using a rifle, not a pistol.
     
  25. sm

    sm member

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    What Sam and Mete said.
    I have obseved the aftermath of 22lr HP and RN in the OR. Both can deflect and go weird places. Dead is Dead though. Seen numerous surgeries, harvests...bullets do weird stuff regardless of caliber, perform differently than imagined,shot placement is key.
     
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