22LR vs 22WMR vs 38 for recoil and efficiency

[Ed Bulldog]

I agree with not having duds with 22 mag or lr for me. I have shot many, many rounds of both in the last 50 years and I have had very few dud lr rounds, nothing like some people are stating here. Maybe I just got extremely lucky with my rimfire ammo purchases through the years.

Thank you for your response
What type of ammo are you using-?
Thank you

 

[REWTEX]

Thank you for your response
What type of ammo are you using-?
Thank you

Like I stated, I’ve shot lots of 22 rimfire over the last 50 years so if you name it I have probably shot it, unless it is something very uncommon. Same goes for the guns, most common brands and types of rifles and pistols.

 

[Pistolay]

I'd like to see the source for the claims that premium ammo is held to a higher level of quality. Are the primers used of the match grade variety? Are manufacturers producing the premium ammo on different machines that are known to hold better tolerances?

The fact is, you can find lots of verbiage from ammo manufacturers about the difference in the components they use and that kind of thing. I'd like to see the source for the claim you seem to be making that that the only difference between range ammo and premium self-defense ammo is the label on the box and the price. Because that does seem to be what you're saying.

 

[TTv2]

The fact is, you can find lots of verbiage from ammo manufacturers about the difference in the components they use and that kind of thing. I'd like to see the source for the claim you seem to be making that that the only difference between range ammo and premium self-defense ammo is the label on the box and the price. Because that does seem to be what you're saying.

No, I said the components being used adds to price increases, but what largely does is the reduced production amounts of that premium ammo compared to range ammo.

There's this thing called setup time when the manufacturers change over a line from producing one caliber or ammo to another. That requires adjusting all the machines and that means for a period of time there is no production occurring and money is being lost.

Since the companies make less premium defense ammo they have to charge a higher price for it to cover their overhead rate to make up for the lack of volume that they otherwise could have spread the cost out over with range ammo that they produce in larger quantities.

You are not getting extra QC with premium ammo.

 

[Pistolay]

You are not getting extra QC with premium ammo.

And what's your source for that?

 

[GooseGestapo]

As regards the .22magRF, I’ve picked up a few from “dud boxes” or otherwise laying on the ground. Most had obviously light strikes. Upon attempting to fire them in my guns, they all went “bang”.
However, if I were to get a .22WMR handgun, it would be a revolver. In fact I have a.22wmr cylinder for my Heritage Arms 6” w/adjustable sights. The .22wmr shoots about 3” high at 20yds. I carry it with Aguila Inteceptors.they run 1,250fps. 1,300 from my 6” S&W M617, but are tough to eject.

 

[TTv2]

And what's your source for that?

15 years in manufacturing.

 

[jmorris]

I'd like to see the source for the claims that premium ammo is held to a higher level of quality.

I guess I can be a source for knowing better constructed bullets alone can improve accuracy over budget bullets. Even if everything else is stays the same.

People that make stuff, know when they make stuff that is better than the stuff they normally make, if I were selling it, I would call it premium and charge more for it, too.

That said, I probably have some wall hangers that would shoot both equally poor.

 

[TTv2]

I guess I can be a source for knowing better constructed bullets alone can improve accuracy over budget bullets. Even if everything else is stays the same.

People that make stuff, know when they make stuff that is better than the stuff they normally make, if I were selling it, I would call it premium and charge more for it, too.

That said, I probably have some wall hangers that would shoot both equally poor.

When we're talking about premium defense ammo, I think the focus is on its functioning, not its accuracy. A round that doesn't feed, fire, and eject without issue isn't worthy of being called premium, it would be better described as problem ammo.

With 7 yards being the general distance for self defense, accuracy is lower in importance. Even if we stretch the distance out some, how much more accurate is this premium ammo compared to general ammo? Is that increased accuracy going to be enough difference to make a difference? I have a .22 that shoots sub MOA with CCI Standard Velocity that doesn't cost much and I've compared it to match grade SK and Eley ammo and I found the more expensive match grade ammo didn't shoot any better, so it's not a guarantee that premium ammunition is going to shoot better than general ammo. It can, but not in every circumstance.

We're getting distracted from the original argument which is people believe the premium ammo has higher, better, stronger, new look, now even better taste QC. For premium defensive handgun ammunition, it doesn't.

 

[jmorris]

accuracy is lower in importance.

If it were never important, we wouldn't ever need it.


Even if it was known to function better than other bullets designed for the same use, that is still above par and will command a higher price.

Why the cheap whisky is on the bottom shelf.

 

[Pistolay]

15 years in manufacturing.

Ammunition manufacturing?

 

[TTv2]

Ammunition manufacturing?

Precision machining, plus the 7 years of reloading I've done and countless hours of videos.

Most of the testing I see done with ammo companies is they dump the ammo in a gun bolted to a rest and shoot a target. I have no reason to believe they shoot more or less of the premium defensive handgun ammo in testing as opposed to the non-premium range ammo.

Feel free to ask them what their procedures are, but good luck getting a response. Hornady would probably be the most friendly, I doubt Federal or Speer customer service even read their emails and I don't have time to make phone calls during normal business hours.

 

[Pistolay]

Precision machining, plus the 7 years of reloading I've done and countless hours of videos.

Most of the testing I see done with ammo companies is they dump the ammo in a gun bolted to a rest and shoot a target. I have no reason to believe they shoot more or less of the premium defensive handgun ammo in testing as opposed to the non-premium range ammo.

Feel free to ask them what their procedures are, but good luck getting a response. Hornady would probably be the most friendly, I doubt Federal or Speer customer service even read their emails and I don't have time to make phone calls during normal business hours.

So, it's just your opinion. Nothing more, nothing less. That's fine. I have a different opinion, and there's no point arguing about it.

 

[TTv2]

If it were never important, we wouldn't ever need it.


Even if it was known to function better than other bullets designed for the same use, that is still above par and will command a higher price.

Why the cheap whisky is on the bottom shelf.

The only way something is going to be made better is if costs more to make. Hollow points cost more to make than FMJ, there is more tooling being used, maintained, adjusted during production, and extra features that require checking to ensure they meet spec. It has nothing to do with it being premium, it has everything to do with extra work needing to be done.

And don't judge me for having to bend over to get my Wild Turkey.

 

[Buckeye63]

As others mentioned… get a 327 or just a
32 H&R..
32 H&R is similar to a 38 Spl ..


Pic of my Taurus 731 32 H&R
100gr 32 H&R LWC Lost River Ammunition Company

 

[TTv2]

So, it's just your opinion. Nothing more, nothing less. That's fine. I have a different opinion, and there's no point arguing about it.

Unless you've been in manufacturing, you're less knowledgeable about things than I and you have nothing to source your opinions on how ammunition QC is done.

Since this is starting to turn into another .22 Magnum priming is better than .22 LR due to better QC situation (which I asked CCI what the deal was and got the answer I expected) I think I will go ahead and email Hornady and ask them if they perform any different QC on premium handgun ammo as opposed to general ammo and since this all got started over .22 Magnum, I'll ask them why their Critical Defense ammo costs more than say, VMax as I think that's the only other .22 Mag ammo Hornady makes.

 

[Pistolay]

Unless you've been in manufacturing, you're less knowledgeable about things than I and you have nothing to source your opinions on how ammunition QC is done.

Since this is starting to turn into another .22 Magnum priming is better than .22 LR due to better QC situation (which I asked CCI what the deal was and got the answer I expected) I think I will go ahead and email Hornady and ask them if they perform any different QC on premium handgun ammo as opposed to general ammo and since this all got started over .22 Magnum, I'll ask them why their Critical Defense ammo costs more than say, VMax as I think that's the only other .22 Mag ammo Hornady makes.

This argument, at least the one I've been having has never been about .22 magnum priming being better than .22lr. It's been that, in my opinion, Hornady Critical Defense is highly likely to be more reliable and better performing than Aguila Interceptors. It was a response to your statement that, since Interceptors have as much velocity as .22WMR, there's no point in spending more money to carry the .22 magnum. That's your opinion, and you're welcome to it, but if my wife is going to carry a rimfire revolver, it's going to be one with the best ammunition she can get, and in my opinion, that's not Aguila range ammo.

 

[TTv2]

This argument, at least the one I've been having has never been about .22 magnum priming being better than .22lr. It's been that, in my opinion, Hornady Critical Defense is highly likely to be more reliable and better performing than Aguila Interceptors. It was a response to your statement that, since Interceptors have as much velocity as .22WMR, there's no point in spending more money to carry the .22 magnum. That's your opinion, and you're welcome to it, but if my wife is going to carry a rimfire revolver, it's going to be one with the best ammunition she can get, and in my opinion, that's not Aguila range ammo.

Hornady Critical Defense .22 Mag does have the potential to expand, but also not to. Why I like Aguila Interceptor is it has the power to penetrate deep enough because it has no chance to expand and since I know it won't expand I know what to expect. You believing that Hornady Critical Defense is better is up to what your definition of "better" is. I know for a fact that all rimfire, regardless of its price, is susceptible to the same number of duds because there is no more QC done to them than any other ammo they put their name on.

 

[joneb]

I am a fan of the 5 shot .38 spl steel frame snub nose with 148 gr WC. Target 148 gr WC from a alloy frame could be a issue? If I was considering a lightweight J frame, the .32 H&R 6 shot would be my choice if recoil was a issue, and I would likely use WC's in it.

 

[someguy2800]

I agree with not having duds with 22 mag or lr for me. I have shot many, many rounds of both in the last 50 years and I have had very few dud lr rounds, nothing like some people are stating here. Maybe I just got extremely lucky with my rimfire ammo purchases through the years.

I've had hundreds and hundreds of 22lr duds. Some of that is partially weapon related. For instance I had a LCP22 that would lite primer strike like 20% of the time with most brands of ammo except for CCI. CCI mini mags would go off probably 98% of the time. I couldn't possibly count how many I've had fail to go off in 22 rifles, 22 semi auto's and my 22 revolvers. Sometimes they will go off if hit again which indicates the striker or hammer spring is just a bit weak for the ammo. Other time if you just rotate them 180 degrees and hit them again they will go off, which indicates they did not get priming compound all the way around in the rim. I have had some that I have turned them several times in the chamber and struck them many many times and still no beuno, which means that case didn't have any priming compound in it at all. Bulk pack ammo is definitely the worse. CCI plastic packed ammo like mini mags and velocitors are very reliable. I don't think I have ever had a mini mag fail to fire except in my LCP22.

 

[jstert]

i believe in shooting alot with any handgun before using it as a ccw. i don’t enjoy recoil. i am on the back side of life, so my limited tolerance of recoil will only diminish. i like my s&w and taurus j-frame 38sp revolvers, and have a healthy stash of 148gr wadcutter ammo for them. i also have a nice colt police positive 32long revolver, but maintaining a constant 500 round ammo stash is a challenge.

the longer i am on this earth the more i will rely on a beloved ruger sr22 and cci 22lr minimag ammo for all my handgun needs. i have put 20,000 rounds through my two over the past decade. a sr22 is my airline checked bag, travel, sidearm, for plinking and ccw at my destination. i know it. i am accurate with it. a reliable and fast 10 round ammo dump, and reload, to an attacker between his knees and sternum is my plan. i avoid shady people & places, and my routines are diurnal.

i also greatly enjoy a 5.5” ruger single six 22wmr/lr single-action revolver. 22wmr needs the 5.5” barrel. a snubby double-action rimfire has a tough trigger pull and is slow to reload. since a rimfire handgun needs a 600mph ice-pick, bee-swarm, ammo dump to be effective, i look to a 22lr semiauto pistol.

so, i am not of much help here as i happily own all three calibers: 38 sp, 22lr. 22wmr.

 

[ms6852]

You are not getting extra QC with premium ammo.

I assumed you were. Than how do you explain that if I buy a bucket 22lr and a box of Lapua or Eley and run them through a chronograph that my standard deviation for the low budget ammo is double digits and the premium ammo is single digit. Also , why will I get more ftf's with the ammo bucket in the first 50 rounds and none with the Premium ammo.

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

I have it down to the final 3 caliber snubbies
My goal is to have controllable recoil tolerance - effectiveness for EDC - range cost
I am asking for YOUR OPINION BECAUSE there maybe a factor that I am not a are of
THEEE OPTIONS
1) 22LR
2) 22WMR
3) 38 wadcutters-> I have this round and it is only tolerable for me at 142grs
THANK YOU

I haven't read through all the comments, so if this has already been addressed then I apologize.

Since you're going for EDC (self-defense), my opinion is you should look at the terminal ballistics and reliability of these rounds as well.

While I'm a huge fan of the .22 WMR, the fact that it's rimfire makes this a less desirable round for EDC over the centerfire .38.

.38 caliber recoil can be quite manageable in terms of recoil, and you've stated that it's tolerable for you at 142 gr.

Now, the terminal ballistics of any of these calibers out of a snubbie are gonna be somewhat...lacking. The .22 WMR is fantastic coming out of a 19 inch rifle, which is what it's really designed for. Many approach, and indeed exceed, 2,000 fps. But out of a 2" barrel, most will be between 800-900 fps. .38's out of a rifle can easily top 1,200 fps. Out of a snubbie? 700ish, give or take a bit.

THIS IS NOT TO SAY I DISAPPROVE OF YOUR CHOICES ABOVE.

You've qualified your choices as being due to recoil toleration, and I won't gainsay that.

My opinion, of the three choices you listed, is to go with the .38. You can tolerate it at 142 gr., it's a centerfire round and therefore inherently more reliable, and it has a significantly larger caliber and mass (which contributes significantly to momentum, important in terminal ballistics).

 

[TTv2]

I assumed you were. Than how do you explain that if I buy a bucket 22lr and a box of Lapua or Eley and run them through a chronograph that my standard deviation for the low budget ammo is double digits and the premium ammo is single digit. Also , why will I get more ftf's with the ammo bucket in the first 50 rounds and none with the Premium ammo.

Because they do test the Lapua or Eley ammo more and that is well known. I never claimed that Lapua/Eley ammo wasn't tested more thoroughly than general .22 ammo, I said defensive ammo wasn't compared to general ammo. Lapua/Eley isn't defensive ammo.

 

[Antihero]

I've had many 22lr dud rounds too. It is usually bulk pack or Blazer stuff but it's enough that I wouldn't trust it if I had to be certain it fired.