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.243 Dies ?

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by 45Frank, Oct 2, 2012.

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  1. 45Frank

    45Frank Member

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    Good day to all;
    Ok I am looking to buy dies for my daughter's .243 in order to lesson the recoil. I found some good loads here and on the web.
    My question is Lee makes two different die set one is the Pacesetter with the factory crimp the Lee Precision Deluxe set doesn't have the crimp die but has the collet die. This is bolt action so I shouldn't need the crimp die correct? So would I be OK with the collet instead of the crimp?
    Also are the rifle dies titanium like the pistol dies and would I need lube if not?
    Thank
     
  2. wardor

    wardor Member

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    You'll need lube for resizing purposes. Even the carbide rifle dies require lube.
     
  3. Arkansas Paul

    Arkansas Paul Member

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    Correct. The 2-piece die set is all you need.
    FYI, a good, low recoil load for .243 - 85 gr Sierra Gameking BTHP and 31 grains of H4895.

    I loaded some for my wife's Ruger 77 and it is very accurate and soft shooting. We're trying it out on deer this season.
     
  4. helotaxi

    helotaxi Member

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    I would recommend the Lee 2-die set that comes with the collet neck die and dead length seater die. The seater is OK, the collet neck die is great.
     
  5. 45Frank

    45Frank Member

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    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    I ordered the Lee last night.
    Thank all, I always willing to listen to those ho have done rather then those who think about doing.:)
     
  6. interlock

    interlock Member

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    hi 45 frank,
    is this for target or hunting use? i have lots of experience loading 243.
     
  7. 45Frank

    45Frank Member

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    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    Good morning interlock
    Hunting, the .243 is for my daughter who is 15 and small. Maybe 4'9" 110 pounds. Small all around, short arms, legs and such. LOL
    I got her a model 700 youth. She seem to be comfortable with the size and weight and all but still complains a little about the kick.
    I have been reloading handgun loads for 25+ years but not to much rifle. I have RCBS, Lee, Hornady and a few others but for some reason I come back to the Lee. Now maybe I will find it different with the rifle loads?
     
  8. kingmt

    kingmt Member

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    Titanium is way to soft for reloading dies.

    The deluxe kit is perfect for bolt rifles.

    I also like Blue Dot & 65gn bullets for deer.
     
  9. Arkansas Paul

    Arkansas Paul Member

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    Be sure and go to Hodgdon's website and click on the "H4895 Reduced Rifle Loads" link under the "Data" tab.
     
  10. interlock

    interlock Member

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    the 700 yoouth has a pretty short barrel if i recall, try a quite fast burning powder and a 85-90 gr bullet. if she holds it right its all good.
     
  11. popper

    popper Member

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    Definitely. Skip the Lee stuff. Get a good FL die set and adjust it right.
     
  12. stubbicatt

    stubbicatt Member

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    The Lee Full Length Sizer and their standard seating die are really quite good. Not a huge fan of the Collet die however. You may wish to buy some Hornady lock rings.
     
  13. kingmt

    kingmt Member

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    The Lee dies are my favorite. I really Lee the lock rings. I use the FL for all new to me brass then everything goes through the NS die after that.
     
  14. popper

    popper Member

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    Does the full length sizer crimp? I got the 3 die collet set and the FL doesn't. 45frank - she probably won't put more than 1K through it in her lifetime so case life isn't really a biggie- FL size.
     
  15. kingmt

    kingmt Member

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    How would you crimp with a FL sizing die? There its no reason to crimp anyway.
     
  16. 45Frank

    45Frank Member

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    OK I am pretty much set up to reload the 243. A few questions since I can already see some difference in rifles as compare to handguns.
    First off finding the bullets locally that some have mentioned for light loads just isn't happening. So I picked up some Speer .85 grain spitzer, the only thing the local gun shop had under 100g.
    First in many of the manuals it does list a .85 grain bullet, Does that mean any .85 grain bullet? Of course I know the difference between boat tail, round nose, hollow tip and such, I mean do I have to find the bullet by name?
    Second I set things up and set the seating die with an empty cartridge just to get the length set right. The manuals I have one being a speer says the Max.COL of 2.650 for a 85 grain bullet yet the factory loads I have are 2.660. What should I use for the COL? Until I am familiar enough to find out what it should be for this particular gun (Rem. Mod. 700 Youth).
    I also am using H4895 but all the reduced loads I found for this powder were for 80grain bullets not 85.
    Suggest away.
     
  17. helotaxi

    helotaxi Member

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    As far as finding load data, as long as the bullet is the same basic construction and design, the published data will get you a starting point. Since you should always develop your loads for your rifle anyway, that's all you really need.

    Actual max length is 2.710" (at least according to SAAMI). The 2.650" in the Speer manual is just the length that they tested at, and is really not that vital to anything. Your only real concern would be jamming a blunt ogive bullet into the rifling and running the pressure up.

    As far as reduced loads go, you're not worried about hitting a pressure limit with H4895 in a reduced load. You can start in the middle of the 80gn load data and work up until you find an accurate load.
     
  18. jjjitters

    jjjitters Member

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    To find the max oal for your rifle, without buying a special tool, I have taken a fired case and run it up into the sizing die just far enough to start sizing the neck.I get it so the bullet I'm going to use will slip in the case mouth but have enough resistance to hold it so I can chamber the "dummy" round in the gun. The bullet will push into the case as it hits the rifling, then carefully eject the round, taking care to not let the round hit anything or fly out. You can now measure the oal, that is the max oal that will fit into your chamber. You can then check to make sure it fits in the magazine. I wouls seat the bullet .01-.015" deeper(shorter oal) so it has a little "jump" to engage the rifling.
     
  19. 788remington

    788remington Member

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    i found that a 3mm jump in my .243 works best for getting a very tight group, and by tight group i mean cutting the same hole at 200 yards i used the same method as jjjitters mentioned
     
  20. Arkansas Paul

    Arkansas Paul Member

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    I too went with the 85 grain bullet and couldn't find anything on the Hodgdon site about them. I guesstimated, which usually isn't a great idea, but with H4895 you can get away with it if you're smart.
    I used a starting load of 30 grains and a Federal Match primer. It was VERY accurate but the primers were backing out a little. That's a sign of low pressure, so I upped the charge to 31 grains and switched to a magnum primer. Viola....no more issues and still very accurate.
     
  21. jduff8505

    jduff8505 Member

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    FWIW I love my Lee stuff. I have thought about trying some of the other brands, but so far have not been able to justify fixing what isn't broke.

    Jeff
     
  22. jim243

    jim243 Member

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    No, not by name. By weight and length. Some mfgs use different bonding materials and methods of bonding the copper to the lead, so in some cases it is a trial and error method to get everything right. Start at min load and work your way up.

    For all my bolt action rifles, I use the Hornady L-N-L OAL gauge and modified case. With this gauge i find the MAX OAL for the bullet I will be using and back off that by 0.050 inches. That gives more than sufficient jump to lands and keeps the round from being jammed into the lands and increasing pressure to a dangerous level. This is going to depend on the condition of your rifle's throat and chamber. The best advice is "when in doubt, use the book's OAL".

    I too use H-4895 for the 85 grain Nosler partion with XXX grains of powder set to an OAL of 2.647, BUT that is for my rifle, yours may be different, use caution. Another decent powder for 243 is IMR 4350, but I prefer the H-4895. Start at the Min and work your load up.

    Jim


    As to dies, I use the Lee Pacesetter set, the Deluxe set has the collet die and is used if you neck size only and not full lenght size your cases.
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2012
  23. popper

    popper Member

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    45frank. I did this for 2 GK's weatherby 243s. Fired case only, begin FL sizing until bolt closes easily. This sets head space. Lock the die down, this is why I use Hornady rings - they stay put! Load a bullet to approx COL, check for bolt closure and rifling marks on the slug. When you don't get marks and the bolt closes easily, seat ~ .02 deeper, lock the die. Those pointy slugs are hard to measure COL. If the bullets have a crimp groove, use as a starting point. If you don't have a crimp die and need one (not often, but some bullets are flat base and I used a slight flare for loading and needed to crimp to remove the flare), you then have to buy one. H4895 works at everything up to max loads for a weight bullet, no 85 gr data? Start @ 90 gr youth and work up to max regular loads. I didn't like the Lee collet sizer cause it doesn't garantee neck tension. I got tired of cleaning the mag of powder and pushing pulled slugs from the bore!
     
  24. 45Frank

    45Frank Member

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    OK checked the OAL by putting the bullet loosely in a cartridge and also with black marker. Seems as though after about a dozen different tries it hits the lands at 2.710 so I will start out with an OAL of 2.680 and see how things go. Let ya know as soon as I'm done and shoot some.
    We did shoot some 100 grain factory loads just so my daughter could get used to it and I think I was worried about a whole lot of nothing. It's loud she moves backwards but she never complained about kick. This rifle had a soft 1.5" - 2" pad that does very well, I was surprised.
     
  25. helotaxi

    helotaxi Member

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    I thought that she was complaining about recoil to prompt all this. If she's comfortable with full power 100gn loads, by all means go te full power route. The 85gn bullets that you have for reloading will recoil even less than the 100gn when loaded to full power so you should be good to go.
     
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