.243 problems and questions

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Huckleberry,
I think a typo has been inserted. My Hornady book shows only H4350 powder, 43.4 grains of this powder is only 3100 fps, and its in the red danger section of the load. Just thought I'd mention that.
 
I shoot a lot of 243. My paper punching load is a Sierra 70 gr. HPBT MatchKing over 37.8 gr Varget. Moves along right under 3100 fps in my Ruger M77 and groups 3/4" for me.
 
Snag, that seems awfully slow for a 70gn. I have 75 vmaxes running 3420 over varget. Charges.

Yep typo, 788, but he is running H4350. His exact words are:

"43gr of H4350 driving an 87gr vmax at 3220 out of a 22" barrel

41.5 gr H4350 driving a 105 Amax at 3100 22"

R17 is about 100-150fps faster. Also h4350 was good up to 45.5 with the 87 but accuracy sucked"

This is a Kreiger barreled surgeon action from Jon Beanland, so definitely not an OTC gun. I have found that typically today's reloading manuals have been dummied down, most likely for lawsuit reasons. While they are a very good rule of thumb, they are not an absolute hard and fast line in the sand. For the experienced reloader they are good as points of note. I have several rifles that their hand loads are above book max, and they do not exhibit any signs of pressure, brass life is good and accuracy is excellent. The rifle shooting the loads listed above is another case in point. YMMV.
 
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Old Parker (P.O.) Ackley described fast moving bullets as all out of proportion to their size in effectiveness when hunting. He thought the 22 250 was spectacular and the .243 is no exception.

I shot an antelope at 225 yards with an 85 grain partition and the boiler room damage was unbelievable. It did not run 20 feet.

There is no need to go to a 100 grain bullet. I frequently hear shooters worried about the penetration of a light bullet so they go to the heavier 100 and 110 grainers. Nothing wrong with them but an 85 grain partition grenades the first half and the second half flys right through at .243 speeds. Just my humble opinion based on my limited experience.
 
I agree that 100 grains isn't required. I just ordered some lighter bullets. Most of the lighter bullets, however, are geared towards varminting and either blowing up on impact, or not destroying the pelt, or both. I did find some geared more for more controlled expansion and penetration.

I used to hunt on a plantation where I had free roam over the place during weekends and evenings (no morning hunts), but I could not shoot a deer unless it was a 100% sure kill. They gave guided horse-drawn wagon quail hunts to the wealthy folks, movie stars, football coaches, and the like. They did not want to stumble across a gut shot bloated deer with vultures pecking at it on their hunts. I quickly learned to be very accurate and I learned to make head-shots. The guy that ran the place showed me that you can look through the scope, get it near where the head will be, and whistle loudly. Every time, the deer would lift his head and look right at you. Then you quickly adjust your aim and shoot. Either you have an instant kill or nothing at all. (well, sometimes he wouldn't even run, he'd just go back to grazing and give you a second chance, but I rarely missed). I haven't hunted there in years since new management took over the place, but I am still hung up on having that uber-accuracy and instant kill. No suffering for the animal, no tracking to be done, and no meat wasted. A varmint bullet would more than suffice for that I suppose, bit I still want some heft.
 
Well, I haven't had time to apply much info yet, but I had some other loads with the speer grand slam bullets that I wanted to try just to see, and I had a couple of hours free to run to the range. I might as well have used buckshot. Those bullets went everywhere. I shot a few more of the loads that I got 1" groups with before and got wider groups. My friend with the lead sled brought it to me, even though I told him I would come get it if I needed it (thinking I would sandbag it instead), but since he went to the trouble of bringing it and not wanting to disappoint him, I used it. I don't like it. I am back to starting to think there is something wrong with the gun. I can't believe this gun will only shoot half decent under such narrow circumstances. The shots are still stringing from top right to bottom left with almost every load I tried. The grand slams were so messed up I don't think I could even determine any pattern. Some of them were off the paper.

I've been doing some reading about the OCW method but haven't applied any of the info yet. I still have to try some more powders and bullets, but I'm wondering if I'm wasting my time trying to get this gun to shoot well. I'll try again with sandbags next trip to the range, maybe there was something to do with the way the gun sat in that lead sled that affected accuracy. I don't know... but I do know that bullets were going different places than where the crosshairs were when the gun went off.
 
Alright, I decided to do a more thorough check of the barrel. I looked under magnification at the crown again and saw no problems, but some roughness at the end of the bore caught my eye. It is really hard to get a light to shine on the side of the inside of the barrel and a loupe over the end at the same time, but I finally got everything just right so that I could see the sides of the barrel. Yuk. It is pitted badly. Using a bore light, the bore looks mirror smooth, but when you actually view the surface dead on from the side, it is full of pits and roughness. I guess I need a barrel? How hard is it to change? I have loads of tools and a very mechanically apt mind, but I've never done it before. I wish I could get a pic of what I see so I could get opinions.

Anyone know where I can find a barrel?

Edit: I've been trying to get a better look and I can only see just a fraction of an inch down the barrel, but it looks like the pitting is just at the muzzle end, not the whole thing. Maybe I can just get 1/2" cut off and re-crowned?
 
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Cheese31757
Cheese31757
trying to post pics
 
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Well, I decided to just cut a half inch off the barrel and see what it looks like further down. Fortunately, the damage was just at the end. I don't know what could have caused it... I am not the first owner.

I hacksawed it off.

Once I saw that the barrel looks good now, I decided to finish the cut end. Rather than buy an expensive tool made for the job, I took my case trimmer shaft out and put a .22 caliber pilot in it, which was a bit too loose in the barrel for the .243 hole. I drove a spent .22 casing over the pilot, clipped the rim off, and it fit nice and snug into the bore to act as a pilot for the cutter. Then I trimmed the barrel off square.
 

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I filed it smooth and chamfered the crown and polished it as well

And here is a pic of the gun this thread is about.

Any reason this wouldn't work out well? The barrel is still 20 1/2 inches long.
 

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Trying to post pics again only to find them in previous post. They weren't there a minute ago... something funny with the site at the moment.
 
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Some shooters thnk that trying to keep the gun from recoiling w/ q SLED is not good. Let it recoil. Laws of nature say it must recoil. Just try and get it 'the same' every time-everything the same.
 
As soon as I can take it to the range, I'll give a report. I'm hopeful. The pitting was really bad on just one side of the end of the barrel. In a spot, there was probably not even ANY original surface left... all rough like looking at the surface of the moon. 1/4" down, the barrel is mirror smooth. What would cause that? Am I right thinking that could cause problems, fliers, and poor groups? I assume some of the pressure could escape past the side of the bullet right there at the muzzle and yaw it a little.
 
Is that a flat crown or target? Target recesses the actual crown to protect it. I assume shooting will eventually deburr it. I can see that moisture would collect if left hanging on the wall for a while, would cause rust at the bottom of the bore, at the muzzle.
 
I have been shooting a 243 for 35yrs. and I load with IMR4895. I use 37gr. and I use a sierra 85gr. BTHP and I hold a group of a nickel or less at 100yds. I am shooting an old Remington 700ADL. This load has served me well. I have killed deer with neck ****s up to 250yds. and heart shots up to 400yds. This load however will not leave a blood trail do to the fact that the bullet does not go through after 250yds. The bullet fragments inside the body with devastating damage without tearing up meat.
 
I took it to the range today. SUCCESS!!! I found 2 loads with different powders and bullets that produced ~.185" and .25" groups. The .25" group was with 39 grains of H4350 and a 100 grain Hornady BTSP. The .185" group was with 36 grains of IMR4895 and a 90 grain speer Hot Cor bullet. I am extremely happy with that! These were 3 shot groups at 100 yards with a Winchester 670 on a sandbag. Even the worse groups were better than usual. I think the barrel fix was a major help.
 

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Here's the barrel after shooting:

The black streaks wiped off... just fouling.
 

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I have been reloading for the .243 since 1963. My first powder was IMR-4831, military surplus of which I bought 5 pounds for $5.00! Today 4831 is new manufacture and sells for $24 + a pound. After I used up the 4831, I bought 10# of H4895. I think that cost me about twelve bucks, no does. I have reloaded over 40 pounds of H4895/IMR4895 which was ignited for prairie dogs and deer hunting. Today I shoot a Remington 700 rifle, sporter weight barrel and synthetic stock. I've owned three 700s in .243, all ADL version. The actions have been glass bedded, by me and barrels floated. Thus far I've never had a 700 that would not group five shots at one hundred yards that was larger than a nickel with my reloads using H4895. I cannot tell you the velocity as I want accuracy first! I want to know where my bullet will hit at 100, 200 and three hundred yards. I've never shot at an animal over 250 yards and know when I pull the trigger the critter is going down. My prairie dog load is 35.5 grains of H4895, WW case, CCI 200 and 75 Hornady HP. Light load, perhaps, but it will disembowl a prairie dog way out there and that's why I'm shooting 'em. My deer load is 36.3 grains of IMR-4895, WW case, CCI 200 and 90 grain Speer. To the best of my recollection, twenty one deer have fallen to my .243 and not one has argued nor taken more than one shot. I don't shoot for the lungs as that little 90 Speer bullet will blood shot a lot of meat. I hold for the spine right where it meets the head and that hold has proven to be my meat getter. I don't shoot at a moving animal and hunt from a stand either in a tree or on the ground. All shots are taken from a rest. I'm not a macho man hunter, just one who enjoys pursing a beautiful animal or raising a little hell in a prairie dog patch. The point I am trying to make is take your time to work up a load. Don't discount the faster burning powders in the .243. I have a friend who lucked into a load using IMR-3031 and swears by it. I have another shooting buddy who tried to use 4831 in his .270 but swore at the load not by it and uses 4064 with great satisfaction. Every rifle is unique. Remember one thing, all these scribes who say one powder is better than another is just trying to make a living and has to write about something. Go for accuracy and get to know your rifle and you will go home a happy and successful shooter/hunter.
 
Hope this is some help. I just got through working up an accurate load for my Savage 99C lever-action yesterday.

The best load was 100 gr. Hornady spire point with a charge of 43.0 gr. of Reloder 22. It gave me 3-shot groups of 5/8" at 100 yds.
All the other loadings I tried (4350, 4064, 4831) were over an inch. Of course, this is just in my gun. That load is MAXIMUM. Don't push it at all.
It has been my experience over the last 25 years of reloading that every barrel shoots differently. You have to play with loads and shoot them in YOUR gun to determine the most accurate one.
 
Thanks for the tips. Did you see the groups in the pics a few posts up? I'm thinking I might leave well enough alone, because I never expected groups under .25" moa! .50" was my goal, and I wasn't sure that was even attainable with the stock barrel. I am going to take a few more of the loads that produced for me to the range this weekend if time and weather permit. If I can reproduce these kind of groups, I will write the loads down in the pages of my loading books so I never forget them, lol. I may still try to work up another load using cheaper components and stuff I already have on hand so that it costs less to shoot, but I'm happy as it stands now.
 
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