25-5 Off Center Firing Pin Strike

[ZBill]

As the attached photos show, I am having off center strikes in my SW 25-4,
.45 Colt. This is a new to me, used revolver and the first time I shot it was today. This only happens when firing double action. Less than half of the shells ignited per full cylinder rotation. There is no problem when fired single action, all centered, deep strikes. It is the pinned barrel version, firing pin on the hammer. Any suggestions? Thank you, Bill

 

[Old Fuff]

Take the revolver and load the chambers with fired cases. Then dry fire it double-action, and see if the cylinder rotates (1) short of the next chamber, or (2) past the next chamber. I suspect that the cylinder is out of time - either the hand isn't turning it far enough (failure to carry up) or the cylinder stop isn't coming up soon enough to catch the rotating cylinder. In either case it should be inspected and corrected by a qualified gunsmith, or returned to S&W to be repaired.

 

[ZBill]

Thanks Old Fuff...

I put in my snap caps and the hammer appeared to fall right when the shell was centered under the frame strap, centered between the flutes. Here are additional photos showing cylinder wear. Maybe they will provide additional information. I had "the fever" after looking for a 25-5 for a long time and thought I had checked it out properly. Maybe I should have had a clearer head. Thank you for your insight, Bill

 

[Old Fuff]

A lot of folks caught that fever...

The cylinder stop notches look a little peened. You may have to have the cylinder stop adjusted so there is more engagement between the ball (the part that sticks up through the frame) and the notch, and replace the cylinder stop spring. Has this revolver had a "trigger pull job" done on it? Hopefully it will not need a new cylinder.

 

[ZBill]

It looks peened to me also...

I'm not sure that it has had a trigger job, it feels correct to me. But I'm used to my other S&W's which are stainless. I will call S&W tomorrow and see if they will take a look at it. It is a used, second hand (or probably much more) revolver to me so I doubt it is under warrantry but it does not hurt to ask. They have been great on servicing handguns that I purchased new.

If they will not take it I will look for a factory authorized gunsmith. Regards, Bill

 

[HSMITH]

I have beaten them into that condition. It probably needs an oversized cylinder stop fitted and the stop notches fitted. From the looks of the stop notches the window in the frame for the cylinder stop is probably beat up too.

Looking at the drag line the cylinder stop is coming up plenty early. It shouldn't be a big deal to fix.

Get it fixed up. Shoot it at moderate DA speed or slower, when you thumb cock it do it at a reasonable speed, and it will last vitually forever. Start hammering it DA hard and fast or thumb cocking it hard and it only takes a couple thousand rounds to return it to the condition it is in now.

 

[ZBill]

Thank you HSmith and Old Fuff...

with your input I can at least offer an informed opininion on what needs to be done and see what the factory says. This forum has helped me out again, regards, Bill

 

[Master Blaster]

Could it be that somone cut the trigger return spring?

This was a common trigger job technique of old. If they did you will have to be very carefull about fully releasing the trigger to the forward position when you fire it fast in double action. The spring will not kick the trigger to the full forward position and the gun will short cycle when you pull the trigger again.

I have seen this on an old smith a fellow club member owns. It had an unbelievably light double action pull but you really need to make sure you FULLY return/ release the trigger between shots.

JMHO YMMV

 

[ZBill]

Master Blaster, DA is fairly light since you mentioned it...

I don't have a way to check the pounds needed to pull through DA. I did find a local "S&W trained, certified gunsmith" (not really sure what that means) who can get to it in a week or so. I'll check his creds but who knows who will really work on it.

That aside, I would like to take it out and shoot it single action this weekend (I have only had it a few days). Will easy-mannered SA shooting cause any additional problems? It shot SA flawlessly for 50 rounds Sunday before it mis-behaved on the first cylinder of DA. Went back to SA later in the day and it worked just fine. SA is my preferred manner of shooting anyway.

Thanks for the suggestion about the cut trigger return spring. I will have the gunmith check that out also. Regards, Bill

 

[Old Fuff]

Shooting the revolver single-action shouldn't be a problem if it's cocked in a normal way. I think that the issue is caused by fast double-action shooting. Just inspect your fired cases.

 

[Jim K]

The drag line behind the stop notches shows pretty clearly that the gun is "throwing by", meaning that the cylinder stop is not coming up in time to enter the leade and the stop notch normally. This is almost always seen in DA fire when someone has cut the cylinder stop spring to make the DA pull lighter. Slower cylinder rotation in SA firing will be OK.

I would replace the stop spring first; with luck, the stop itself is OK. I would also replace the trigger return spring on general principles, not because it can cause that problem, but just because it is another spring that "expert" trigger adjusters usually cut.

Jim

 

[ZBill]

Thanks folks..

just bought an AGI S&W Revolver Tech Manual and Armorer's Course DVD. I am hoping I can learn something and replace these springs myself. I am a true novice on revolvers.

Am I asking for big trouble here and should I just step away and leave the spring replacement to the pros? Your opinion is appreciated, Regards, Bill

 

[Old Fuff]

Replacing the springs isn't difficult, provided you have the instructions and a set of screwdrivers set up for Smith & Wesson revolvers (available from Brownells at www.brownells.com). I would suggest that you start with stock springs (also available from Bownells) and then decide if you want to go to further modifications. You might also want to get a set of cup-point pin punches to fit S&W lockwork - also avaialble from the above mentioned source.

 

[HSMITH]

Get a rebound slide tool, that is what the trigger return spring is in, from Brownells. The rebound slide is a BUGGER without the tool the first 15 times you take one out and put it back in......

 

[BluesBear]

It's no better the next 250 times either.

 

[Old Fuff]

The Old Fuff, being a world-class cheapskate, uses an old screwdriver with a little notch cut in the blade's tip to catch the spring. It's worked fine for the last 50 years or so.

 

[ZBill]

This is starting to sound a little tricky...

maybe single action shooting is just fine for my 25-5.

I think I need to review the AGI DVD again for more pointers. Bill