.25acp kills you just as dead...

[Thirties]

This from today's LA Times:

"Police detained two suspects and were searching for another Saturday in the killing of a 25-year-old San Francisco Giants fan in the parking lot of Dodger Stadium, a shooting that authorities said had been triggered by a decades-old baseball rivalry.

Two families leaving the game during the eighth inning apparently traded words about the teams, police said. The dispute culminated when Mark Allen Antenorcruz, of Covina, was shot twice after a man he was arguing with pulled a .25-caliber semiautomatic handgun from his family's white SUV, police said.

Antenorcruz was taken to nearby Los Angeles County-USC Hospital, where he later died, according to Los Angeles County coroner officials."

(bold face added by me for emphasis)

 

[capbuster]

Back in the early seventies when I worked on the graveyard shift as a patrolman,we noted that that the tiny 25acp round was the deadliest cartridge around our fair city. Handguns in this caliber were commonly carried by our citizens and commonly used.

 

[caz223]

You're missing the point, he died in the hospital.
Several hours later, no doubt.
I'd rather have a weapon that is chambered in something in a little faster-acting caliber.
Also, don't you think that they're taking their sport a little too seriously??
People that get that worked up over a game would have prolly died of high blood pressure later that evening anyway, don't you think?

Edited for correct wording...same idea

 

[El Tejon]

Yes it can kill, but can it STOP?

 

[Thirties]

"You're missing the point, he died in the hospital. Several hours later, no doubt."

I'm making the point, not missing the point. My point is that a .25acp can and will kill.

Your point, which I also agree with, is that the .25acp will not stop a crazed felon. So true.

These are two different points. I was just trying to remind people here that stopping is one thing, but killing is also a factor.

I totally agree the .25acp is not a man stopper. But let's not forget, it is a man killer. A fly swatter, it isn't.

 

[Tamara]

Yes it can kill, but can it STOP?

I'm quite sure that plenty of people have been rendered DRT by .25 ACP.

I just usually prefer to stack the deck a little in my favor by using bigger bullets.

 

[caz223]

There's also the intimidation factor....If dirty harry carried a .25, do you think he would be as popular?
Just another silly visual that kept me out of the really good schools.
Dirty Harry holding onto a raven .25, asking "Do you feel lucky punk".
Well do ya?

 

[hillbilly]

Yes, .25 ACPs are lethal.

And .22 rimfires are lethal.

Shoot, a #2 pencil, sharpened, and wielded with force is lethal. Knitting needles are also lethal.

But I would prefer to trust my safety to a handgun catridge with a little more oomph.

You can also find reports and accounts of .25 ACPs bouncing off skulls at close range.

hillbilly

 

[natedog]

I've heard of criminals hyped up on PCP taking 10-20 9mm hits. I wouldn't want to trust my life on a cartridge that small, especially now that you can get a .380 (Kel-tec...P-3 AT i believe) in a similar sized package as some .25 handguns.

 

[Gordon]

I always thought that ANY criminal who recieved two or more hits in the face or five to nine hits in the torso from my Berretta .25 would start thinking medical care more than felonious assault. Ditto that for .22 short!Actually I didn't THINK that, I had it backed up by 100 years of FACTUAL shootings, it's the rare moron who is capable of a serious attack you can't retreat from if he is "drugged up" enough to be oblivious to pain ect. , they stagger at that point eh? Please don't sermonize me on effective caliber, I've been packing a .45 since Christ was a corporal!

 

[sebago]

Sure the .25 acp will kill a person eventually, but so will the baloney sandwich and bowl of ice cream I just had for lunch. If I need to use a handgun in self defence I want to solve that problem right now and that to me means a larger caliber, 9mm or better.

 

[semf]

I've heard this argument rage for years. The only real life examples I have is when a punk friend of my son held up a astore and was shot several times with a 9mm and returned fire 3 times with his.25 hitting the store owner in the neck and killing him . The punk survived with somewhere between 5 and 9 (depending on the storyteller) bullets in him. Many misplaced shots from a 9mm did not incapacitate but 3 well place hits from a .25 instantly ended the fight. I'm not trying to glorify this punk but he was able to maintain his composure and return fire and hit his target ( all 3 shots in the neck) while under fire and after being hit several times. That makes much more difference than what caliber. A well placed .25 hurts alot more than a close miss with a .44

 

[C.R.Sam]

As above...
Kill; yes. Stop; no.

Doesn't have to be a crazed psyco druggie either.
Near me, non crazed gents had an arguement.
One shot the other with .25ACP.
Other took exception and drew and returned fire with one .45.
One instantly stopped n dead.
Other died later.

Think it was Cooper who said don't shoot someone with a .25, might piss em off.

Sam

 

[WonderNine]

The only guaranteed "stop" is a direct hit to the CNS. Brain and or spinal cord. In that respect 9mm or .357 is your best bet because of its penetration power.

 

[curt]

i sometime wonder whether these cop stories of the number of people killed by .25 and .22 are really representative. How many gangbangers go to the hospital after being wounded by a .22? I would guess not many, it probably would not be worth the questions from the cops that they would be subjected too.

 

[Gordon]

Don't go for medical care after .22 or .25 hits? The ones who didn't since Cival war times have universally had more on their minds than answering questions! You guys have fallen for the myth of "insignificant'" .22 short or .25 hits, it ain't so in real life guys.:banghead:

 

[Gerald McDonald]

As I have said before, I had an uncle who took a 22 from a cheap revolver in the side of the head at a distance of maybe 6-8 feet. He never knew what hit him, lived for two days comatose and having convulsions. Son in laws partner took a magazine full of 22 lr's from a Ruger or Browning (dont remember which) in about 3-4 seconds during a traffic stop. He was never able to even return fire. It took him out of the fight. Most were absorbed by his vest but one hit him in the corner of the eye, one hit his hip bone and traveled through his body to come out near his shoulder.
You can believe all of that shrugging off 22 hits you want, but dont try to feed it to me.

 

[C.R.Sam]

I think that we all agree that any of em will kill.

But I want a better chance of STOPPING the person tryin to kill me.
If he dies after killin me, doesn't do me much good.

Sam

 

[Standing Wolf]

Two families leaving the game during the eighth inning apparently traded words about the teams...

That's one approach to team loyalty, I guess.

 

[Jim K]

I don't think any caliber short of, maybe, a cannon, can be absolutely guaranteed to stop with one shot, but a .25 bullet through the eyeball will do a pretty good job.

Those who sneer at any gun better think again. If someone points a .25 at you and your response is to stand there tossing out one-liners, you can be too dead to hear the laughter.

(If Jeff Cooper actually said that bit about "if I find out", he is a bigger fool than I think he is. He sure didn't originate that silly saying; it has been around in one form or another since at least the Civil War.)

Jim

 

[rock jock]

a shooting that authorities said had been triggered by a decades-old baseball rivalry.

England and Brazil ain't got nothing on us.

 

[Croyance]

It will kill, but the odds are lower.
And if you look up complete statistics, I'm sure you will find that while more people are killed with .22 LR's and .25 ACP's, many more survive. Criminals don't want to carry larger guns for many reasons. The percentage of deaths and stops must be drastically lower for such rounds.
Really, I don't know if I will have the time or composure to guarentee 2 shots to the face or 5 to the torso in the event of a felonious assault.

 

[Dilettante]

Another way to think about it

My father is a doctor. For most of my childhood he was in medical training.
I remember many times that he was in the hospital overnight, was exhausted the next morning, and later mentioned that he'd spent all night sewing up some scumbag for the Nth time. Often the creep was drunk, high on PCP, or threatened or vomited on staff members.
I'm not in a hurry to shoot anyone. I don't have the philosophy that you try to terminate every dangerous punk you run into. I will go to great lengths to avoid a lethal confrontation.
But if I ever am forced to kill someone, I don't want anyone's time (or thou$and$ of taxpayer money) to be wasted trying to fix him.

 

[denfoote]

I've been packing a .45 since Christ was a corporal!

I was not aware that Jesus Christ was ever in the Army!!

You would think, being God and all, that he would at least be an officer!!

 

[ruger357]

I feel pretty comfortable with my Jetfire in my pocket.