265gr For .300 Blackout

[Havok7416]

Just came across these:
http://www.acmebullet.com/bullets-reloading-brass/Black Out/Black-Out

Anyone have any experience with them or load data that might be usable? I will likely try them out regardless, but it will be a time/money equation.

 

[Swampman]

Wow!

Those things look more like a section of cleaning rod than a bullet!

I have no knowledge of those bullets and was unaware of their existence until I followed your link.

The concept appears sound, that bullet looks pretty short for it's weight. As long as you've got a 1/8" or faster twist they should stabilize just fine. I would be a little worried about that fat bullet having problems with the forward ribs in most AR magazines.

I don't know if you've had much experience shooting cast bullets in rifles so just make sure you thoroughly clean and fully decopper your bore before you start shooting lead.

 

[Havok7416]

Wow!

Those things look more like a section of cleaning rod than a bullet!

I have no knowledge of those bullets and was unaware of their existence until I followed your link.

The concept appears sound, that bullet looks pretty short for it's weight. As long as you've got a 1/8" or faster twist they should stabilize just fine. I would be a little worried about that fat bullet having problems with the forward ribs in most AR magazines.

I don't know if you've had much experience shooting cast bullets in rifles so just make sure you thoroughly clean and fully decopper your bore before you start shooting lead.

It's a coated bullet which I have extensive experience with in both pistols and rifles. I have never found a need to decopper any of my guns.
My twist IIRC is 1/7. I think this bullet just seats deeper. They mention using less powder ehich may be a combination of the bullet weight itself and the depth it sits inside the case.
Per Acme: "The 265 grain DS Special will feed in most AR's when loaded to an OAL of 2.12". The bullet is 1.375" long, weighs 265 grains and is stable in 8 twist and faster barrels at subsonic velocities."
So it should work in the magazine.

 

[ms6852]

That is impressive, I am in the process of building up my finances for a 300 black out and started buying supplies for that round. This should be interesting. Sure hope someone here provides a range report on that bullet. Thanks for the information and post Mr. Havok

 

[444]

Yes, I have shot those bullets.
They shot decent.

Let me say that I have not worked up a load for them. I bought 250 of them, I loaded 50 and shot them. They shot OK. I put the project aside for awhile and just recently loaded up 50 more with various powder charges to begin serious accuracy testing with them. The ones I recently loaded up are seated WAY out to within .010 of the lands of my Ruger American rifle.

FWIW: I am NOT shooting them out of an AR15.

So, yes I have them and I have fired them. However I can't give you any advice on load data or anything at this point.

FWIW: they look like a tube of lipstick when they are loaded

Here is a link to another forum, that has a thread about this bullet including the guy the designed the bullet: http://www.300blktalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=141&t=100346

 

[Havok7416]

Thanks for the info. I went ahead and contacted Acme directly. Surprisingly they said they would forward my request to their guy who does load data. So now I'm just waiting to hear back.

Incidentally how do you like the Ruger American (in what I assume is .300 Blackout)?

 

[<*(((><]

That's a lot of lead!

Why did they size them at .310?

Also the big question is whether or not they will expand reliably at subsonic velocities otherwise what is the purpose?

 

[Havok7416]

The sizing is odd I agree. I'm not sure why the bullets would need to expand. They certainly have a use as (quiet) target bullets if nothing else. I'm sure they would also do quite a number on any hunting target even if they didn't expand.

 

[LoonWulf]

The sizing is odd I agree. I'm not sure why the bullets would need to expand. They certainly have a use as (quiet) target bullets if nothing else. I'm sure they would also do quite a number on any hunting target even if they didn't expand.

I shot one pig with 245MBC bullets, which have basically the same profile, and it made a pencil hole thru and thru on a pretty decent size sows skull. My load launched the MBCs at just over 800fps.
Were i going to be using these for anything besides targets, the only shots i would take would be nervous system shots.

 

[<*(((><]

I shot one pig with 245MBC bullets, which have basically the same profile, and it made a pencil hole thru and thru on a pretty decent size sows skull. My load launched the MBCs at just over 800fps.
Were i going to be using these for anything besides targets, the only shots i would take would be nervous system shots.

That is why I would like to see if they expand, a pencil shot through and through vitals won't do much for a quick kill or kill at all, hence LoonWulf using for only nervous system shots.

But yes for quiet target practice they seem like fun to tinker with.

 

[Havok7416]

I shot one pig with 245MBC bullets, which have basically the same profile, and it made a pencil hole thru and thru on a pretty decent size sows skull. My load launched the MBCs at just over 800fps.
Were i going to be using these for anything besides targets, the only shots i would take would be nervous system shots.

Where did you get load data from for the 245s? I had seen those at MBC but haven't gotten around to buying any yet because money it turns out, does not grow on trees.

 

[Havok7416]

That is why I would like to see if they expand, a pencil shot through and through vitals won't do much for a quick kill or kill at all, hence LoonWulf using for only nervous system shots.

But yes for quiet target practice more power to them.

I didn't make this clear but I don't hunt so expansion is a moot issue for me. Where I see particular merit with these super-heavy bullets is suppressed target shooting - particularly on land where I am the only one shooting.

 

[LoonWulf]

I started with data from 220Sierras and went both up and down with h110, and.......4227 i think, i cant remember right now. I was loading for an AR at that point, and really just looking to see if i could get it to cycle and not be horribly loud. Turns out the powders i can get locally dont do that real well.

The load i used on the Pig was fired from a RAR, and was loaded with 231. That data I used quickloads and at bullet profile i made for the 245s. Turns out that at least in MY rifle, the data was pretty close in velocity. ES/SD wasnt great, but out to 100yds the gun landed all the rounds in about 2-3" if i remember correctly. I traded it not long after i got that worked out.

oh hey, i think i still have some of those MBCs if you want to play with some.

 

[Havok7416]

Thank you for the information. I also use an AR so that is very helpful. I would be interested in the 245s if you have no further use for them. I will send you a PM and maybe we can work out some details.

 

[444]

1) If you go to the link I posted above and read the thread you will see that these are NOT designed for hunting.

2) If you click on the link in the OP and look at the specifications it lists a Brinell Hardness of 16. They will not expand.

 

[444]

Thanks for the info. I went ahead and contacted Acme directly. Surprisingly they said they would forward my request to their guy who does load data. So now I'm just waiting to hear back.

Incidentally how do you like the Ruger American (in what I assume is .300 Blackout)?

I really like the rifle.
It seems to be a very nice weight and a very nice length. Handy.

I have been having a lot of fun loading for this cartridge. When I first got the rifle, I shot some factory loads. And I started playing around with handloads. The factory loads and my early attempts at handloads shot OK, but nothing really good. And at the time I figured that I was shooting a very inexpensive rifle so maybe this was as good as it gets. But, after putting a lot of time into experimentation and after reading a lot of internet traffic about what other people were doing (who were interested in accuracy) as well as reading a lot about precision reloading: I have both supersonic and subsonic loads that shoot exceptionally good. I am not really into hunting. I don't care about the terminal performance of bullets. I get my kicks in shooting by playing around with handloading to get better accuracy. And for some reason, this cartridge (.300 AAC Blackout) has been a lot of fun doing that with.

 

[LoonWulf]

Something else for anyone wanting to shoot these types of bullets to consider is that the low velocities, high hardness, and long bullets make these very "bouncy" when i was playing with the 245s we made a game out of skipping them off of stuff, which they did consistently and surpisingly well.
Even bullets bounced of smoothish rocks and into the gravel stop, showed surprisingly little deformation. A direct hit would usually brake them in half or just smash up a bit of the front and they would tumble off with quite a bit if energy left.

 

[Havok7416]

I really like the rifle.
It seems to be a very nice weight and a very nice length. Handy.

I have been having a lot of fun loading for this cartridge. When I first got the rifle, I shot some factory loads. And I started playing around with handloads. The factory loads and my early attempts at handloads shot OK, but nothing really good. And at the time I figured that I was shooting a very inexpensive rifle so maybe this was as good as it gets. But, after putting a lot of time into experimentation and after reading a lot of internet traffic about what other people were doing (who were interested in accuracy) as well as reading a lot about precision reloading: I have both supersonic and subsonic loads that shoot exceptionally good. I am not really into hunting. I don't care about the terminal performance of bullets. I get my kicks in shooting by playing around with handloading to get better accuracy. And for some reason, this cartridge (.300 AAC Blackout) has been a lot of fun doing that with.

I have been discovering the .300 Blackout to be a perfect cartridge to reload for as well. In fact, it's about as much fun as I've had reloading and I generally regard the task as a chore. The only real snag in the flexibility of the .300 Blackout seems to be the lack of powder selection for it.

 

[ms6852]

I have been discovering the .300 Blackout to be a perfect cartridge to reload for as well. In fact, it's about as much fun as I've had reloading and I generally regard the task as a chore.

This is good to hear. I am slowly acquiring supplies and accessories to convert brass for 300 blackout, I was wondering if there is a particular die you like to use for this round. I have a Forster press and have a variety of dies like lee, rcbs, and hornady that I use for different calibers. Would appreciate your input.

 

[444]

Spurred on by this thread, I went out today and shot my test loads using these cast bullets.
I loaded a total of 27 rounds (that's just how many of that particular headstamp brass I had).

I used VV N-110 powder which has proven itself to me to be an ideal powder for .300 Blackout. When I first started loading for .300 Blackout, I had every powder listed in my loading manual in my bench, since they were all common magnum pistol powders. Some of the powders I have tried for this cartridge are (but not limited to) Lil Gun, H110, CFE BLK, 296, IMR 4227, H4198......................and VV N-110.

With the bullets I have tested, in every case, whether supersonic, or subsonic, VV N-110 produced better accuracy and better standard of deviation. In most cases a LOT better.

So anyway, I tried these bullets with VV N-110 using charges from 8.0 grains to 8.8 grains in .2 grain increments, loaded to an overall length of 2.150".

So the first thing I figured out is that the OAL is too long to fit in my Ruger American rifle magazine
These powder charges were just a guess, so the second thing I figured out was that these powder charges were all faster than what I wanted, other than 8.0 grains.

8.0 grains 1040 fps 15.8 sd
8.2 grains 1073 fps 8.0 sd
8.4 grains 1085 fps 7.1 sd
8.6 grains 1106 fps 6.0 sd
8.8 grains 1115 fps 2.2 sd

The most accurate load was the 8.8 grain load. None of these loads shot very accurately. I would say the 8.8 grain shot maybe 1.5" at 50 yards. Definitely not impressive.

I have found through trial and error (mostly error) that my rifle seems to have an accuracy node at about 1030 fps. So, I am going to shoot maybe 7.8 and 7.6 grains of VV N-110 and see what happens. I am not all that enthused about this based on the accuracy I have been getting but, I have the bullets, so I might as well shoot them up. FWIW: I have shot better groups using 220 grain Sierra Matchkings, subsonic; AT 200 YARDS than what these bullets are doing for me at 50 yards. But, there is a lot more experimentation left to do. And, I guess I am getting adequate accuracy for "plinking" or shooting jack rabbits or something like that. Problem for me is that I don't really plink. I like to shoot paper for accuracy and some long range steel.

I will update the thread as I go (as long as decent weather holds out, I will be shooting).

 

[Havok7416]

This is good to hear. I am slowly acquiring supplies and accessories to convert brass for 300 blackout, I was wondering if there is a particular die you like to use for this round. I have a Forster press and have a variety of dies like lee, rcbs, and hornady that I use for different calibers. Would appreciate your input.

I use Lee dies exclusively for my reloading and have never had any problem with them. I realize some will say they are too cheap or they don't work right and I'm not going to try and argue. I reload to save money, so the Lee dies make the most sense based on cost. I think the exact set I use for .300 Blackout are Pacesetters.

 

[444]

I don't reload to save money. In fact, I don't know if I am saving any money or not.
That being said, Lee makes good stuff. They always have. I own a lot of Lee stuff and have for decades; never had the slightest problem or issue with any of it.

In .300 AAC Blackout, I have four different dies !!!!!!!!!!
I have a Lee Collet Die set with the collet sizing die and the dead length bullet seater.
I have a set of Hornady dies.
I have a Forester sizing die.
And I have a LE Wilson bushing die, and an LE Wilson bullet seater both of which are used with an arbor press.

If you are using the sizing die for case forming, I have read not to use the Lee die (for case forming). If you are using factory brass, I honestly don't think it makes much difference what die set you use. Generally I tend to use the high end Redding dies with the micrometer adjustments and all that, but in .300 BO, I don't believe "they" make those dies. I guess if you pinned me down, I would say go with Forester, but they are all good.

 

[ms6852]

I use Lee dies exclusively for my reloading and have never had any problem with them. I realize some will say they are too cheap or they don't work right and I'm not going to try and argue. I reload to save money, so the Lee dies make the most sense based on cost. I think the exact set I use for .300 Blackout are Pacesetters.

Thanks for the replies, I use a lot of lee products as well, I have a variety simply because when I shopping I buy whatever brand is available, at that moment I need to get my fix and waiting is not an option.

 

[ms6852]

I loaded a total of 27 rounds (that's just how many of that particular headstamp brass I had).

Hey 444, were any of these loads compressed at all based on the oal of the bullet?

 

[444]

I don't believe so.
When you are shooting these big bullets subsonic, you are not using very much powder. To be honest, I didn't really pay attention to see if the bullet was up against the powder.