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270 loads ?

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by RoyalWulff, Oct 1, 2019.

  1. Richard Jay King

    Richard Jay King Member

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    30 Years ago when I started loading for my .270 I was able to get a little over 3000 fps from a 130 grain bullet in a 20" barreled Winchester Mod 70!!! I was using DuPont IMR4831 from that time period and my load came right out of the DuPont Handloaders Guide. I will not mention the exact load because it well exceeds current loading manuals for this powder. The load I used was accurate and showed NO pressure signs..Bolt lift was normal and no ejector mark was on the head of the case. It is obvious that the newer lots of IMR 4831 are faster burning than those old lots so If I were still loading for the .270 today I might try IMR7828...Currently this powder seems to be very similar in burn rate to the IMR4831 of old...
     
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  2. old heeler

    old heeler Member

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    I've used lot of different powder over the years in 270. About 5 yrs ago I started using IMR-7828ssc with 150gr ABLR. I've been using same powder in one of my 280AI and 270Wby.
     
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  3. LOLBELL

    LOLBELL Member

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    I get very good results with IMR 7828 and a Hornady 140 BTSP. I get 1/2 MOA out to about 350 yards and have never lost an animal with that combo.
     
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  4. Slamfire

    Slamfire Member

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    During load development I made up some loads with IMR 4831 that exceeded 3000 fps. Now, I lubricate my cases during load development. I have found that lubricating the case accurately shows the transition between round primers and flat primers. High case to chamber friction will disguise this, giving false high pressure indications. It has to do with case friction, with high case to chamber friction the case sticks to the chamber during ignition but the primer backs out to the bolt face. And then when pressures are high enough to stretch the case sidewalls, the primer cup is expanded and is stuffed back into the case, and it will appear flat. Also, I want the bolt to be fully loaded, so I lubricate the case and get a full bolt loading. I don't want case to chamber friction to disguise overpressure loads. So, I feel sticky extraction sooner. Most of the time.

    My 130 grain IMR 4831 clearly exceed 3000 fps, some were over 3100 fps, no sticky bolt extraction and primers all looked similar. I don't remember any leaking primers. However, when I sized, trimmed, and then started priming those cases, well what do you know, expanded primer pockets!. Oops! I had a lot of loose primer pockets, and the only way that could happen was extremely high pressures that expanded the case heads. I tossed those cases.

    So, you can get those super fast velocities that made the 270 Win so famous in the inprint press, but you are probably going to be tossing your cases in a couple of loads, unless you super glue primers into the pockets. There won't be any need to use a priming tool to seat the primers, you will be able to seat them with your thumb, and pour super glue around the primer circumference to hold them in place.
     
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  5. Richard Jay King

    Richard Jay King Member

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    " Also, I want the bolt to be fully loaded, so I lubricate the case and get a full bolt loading. I don't want case to chamber friction to disguise overpressure loads. So, I feel sticky extraction sooner. Most of the time."

    So as you indicated by the loose primer pockets you definately had an overload on your hands even though there was no "sticky bolt lift" but in my experience I have always had a sticky bolt lift AND a ejector hole mark (if the rifle has a plunger ejector) prior to loose primer pockets. Actual chamber pressure whether or not it is to "spec" has little to do with what is safe and reliable in any given firearm. What is safe is what functions reliably in all temps and conditions with easy bolt lift with clean ammuntion with good consistency and accuracy and tight primer pockets..whether it is 2800 fps or 3100 fps...What ever the final velocity you can reach..just is what it is at that point...Sometimes it is fast in a given rifle..sometimes it is not...
     
  6. murf

    murf Member

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    what is "safe" is what is within current reloading manual specs ... end-of-story. going beyond this is on you and whomever does this. nothing wrong with it, but cannot be condoned for everyone.

    luck,

    murf
     
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  7. Richard Jay King

    Richard Jay King Member

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    Ok...so tell me..how do you know a load in a loading manual that says it is 52,000 psi in their test apparatus is 52,000 psi in YOUR gun? I want to know? Please tell me because I have no idea how to tell other than to look at chronograph results and pressure signs on the case...
     
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  8. murf

    murf Member

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    ammo maker liability says so. reloading manual authors and ammo makers, and firearm manufacturers, don't want to be sued for damages from blown up guns. so the saami maximum pressure limits are set so this does not happen in any firearm. and, from the lack of blown up firearms, I think they got it right. seems like handloaders, for the most part, that stick to the reloading manuals don't blow up guns.

    my comment above is to remind everyone reading this thread to stay within the guidelines set by the reloading manual.

    luck,

    murf
     
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  9. Lee Q. Loader

    Lee Q. Loader Member

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    I use the max load in the current Hodgdon manual. Be sure to work up to that. My load with 130 Hornady Interlocks gets about 2970 fps in my 22" barrel.
     
  10. RoyalWulff

    RoyalWulff Member

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    Good to know ! I am also loading 130 interlocks in a 22 in barrel
     
  11. GooseGestapo

    GooseGestapo Member

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    I’ve loaded for the .270 off and on for over 40yrs.
    I generally concur with slamfire that .270 velocities are generally overstated.

    About 6yrs ago, after a 20+yr hiatus, I aquired a lightly used ‘70’s vintage Interarms MkX. I proceeded to aquire the usual assortment of bullets and powders for loading.

    Indeed, IMR4350 didn’t dissapoint for accuracy. But, with the early Wilson 24” barrel, high 2,900-low 3,000fps was the limit. Factory Winchester PowerPoints 130’s clocked mid 3,000’s.
    I tried various 4831 clones. I liked RL22 best with a 140 Sierra for 2,900fps. H4350 got “close” to 3,100 with a Nosler/Winchester 130gr CT. EXPLOSIVE on smallish whitetails.
    Fastest velocities are with MagPro. This slow burner straddles the threshold for being too slow. I finally got the “holy grail” of 3,200fps with a 130. Accuracy is “adequate”, but not as good as good old 4831, or 4350. No way my 22”bbl Rem700ADL gets 3,100fps with a 130w/o cratered primers (though many factory loads do crater primers!).
    Remember, all the old advertising and many of Jack O’C’s velocities came from 26” or longer barrels.
    By fate, I fell into the .30/06 camp. For elk and larger, it’s superior. But for mule deer, sheep, goats, “speed goats”, and most anything else, the .270’s flat 300yd trajectory and slightly lower recoil gives it the advantage, even if you don’t see “3’s” on the chrono.
     
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  12. Chuck R.

    Chuck R. Member

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    I just finished load development for a new Nosler M48 with 24" barrel. Both Nosler 130 BTs and ABs clocked at 3170 and 3164 with no signs of pressure and sub MOA using H4831SC and Rem 9 1/2s in WIN brass. My previous .270 load was 3120 in my Steyr using IMR4831 and it had a 23.6" barrel.

    Actually in a letter O'Connor wrote he stated he was using 22" barrels and a custom rifle with a 24" barrel. This was posted in Ken Waters "Favorite Loads":

     
  13. Coyote conquest

    Coyote conquest Member

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    I use H4831 and have no problem getting good velocity and great accuracy. I have some Ramshot Hunter I want to try next. I use it for .243 but should work good in a .270. I have almost 5lbs of H450 left. I liked it for .270 but then blew a primer and locked the bolt out of nowhere with what had been a great load. Not sure what happened there.
     
  14. rsnell

    rsnell Member

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    I have had very good results using H4831 SC and a 130 grain Hornady SST bullet. All of your choices will give good results.
     
  15. NorthBorder

    NorthBorder Member

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    I'll watch this thread. I am just wanting to work up a load using 130 gr Speer Hot Cores and either H4831SC or RL19. Looking for a COAL. I just did a bullet seating depth just using a cleaning rod and a sharpie and it is between 3.278 and 3.281". Don't know just how accurate that technique is.
     
  16. Richard Jay King

    Richard Jay King Member

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    I have had similar scary incidents with WW785 which I believe is, in some lots, the same as H450. I have seen huge unexpected pressure increases and after that I poured all my WW785 out! I suspect that is why Hodgdon discontinued its H450 and Winchester stopped marketing 785...
     
  17. CptnAwesome
    • Contributing Member

    CptnAwesome Contributing Member

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    Not sure if this load has already been posted but I have 2 270's and they both love 130gr Sierra GameKings BTSP and H4831.

    If you haven't already noticed the 4831 powders are a very popular prefer for 270
     
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  18. 2ndtimer

    2ndtimer Member

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    I just threw together a load for some friends using plain old Hornady 130 gr Spire Points, Accurate 4350 (54 gr, start lower and work up) CCI-200 primers and Winchester brass. The old Remington 700 put three in under an inch at 100 yards from the bench, while the Savage 116 went under half an inch for 3! Almost a 3 leaf clover.
     
  19. Captcurt

    Captcurt Member

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    But there is a lot of difference in manuals. My Lyman shows 2 or 3 grains more powder as max than my Nosler Book. I was scratching my head on where to start with my 338 Federal. Then you go to the Hodgon or IMR website and they may be different.

    Start low, work up and pay attention is all that I can say.

    Another thing that stumps me is: what is the big deal about temperature sensitive powders? I have hunted in temps from -5 to 90 degrees and have never had a problem with my old IMR-4350. I shot a Muley at close to 400 yards in 20 degree weather and a pronghorn at 265 when it was nearly 90 degrees with the same load. The bullets flew where I was looking.
     
  20. Glockula

    Glockula Member

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    48 grains of IMR 4064 under a Sierra GK 130 sp is my go to. Almost no one recommends 4064 in .270 but I can't find a better load. Ive killed deer to 325 yards with this load. And 8 point fell at 217 last season to this combo.

    While factory ammo and other load combos I have tried are Ok this combo has been a solid .5 to .75 MOA shooter in my weatherby. Honestly if I'm not shooting bug holes at 100 yards and around an inch at 200 I'm considering it a poor shooting day.
     
  21. horsey300

    horsey300 Member

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    But at what temperature did you start working up your load and testing?
    Some powders are more sensitive than others (I.e. ball powders) if I work up a load late fall and wind up close to max, I definitely care about the pressure spikes during the hot summer days. If I can test my ammo between 50-70 degrees, to date I know that with the insensitive powders, I have seen no negative impact worth measuring on 100 degree days, clear down past -15. I also know that I had a good safe load with a less temp stable powder start blowing primers on a rather hot summer day...... things get hot pressure goes up, they get cold and pressure goes down, any powder that handles extreme swings is alright by me.
     
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  22. Jim Rau

    Jim Rau Member

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    What do you intend to hunt with it? I you wish to hunt game larger than deer I would recommend the 150 Nosler Partition. I am a 'one load' hunter and this bullet works WELL and has for many years for me and others. My go to powder is H4831. That said, I like to try/test factory ammo and I now live in Bama so I hunt mostly medium size white tails and the Win 'Deer Season' ammo is VERY accurate in my current 270 so I am going to use it this year to 'test' it.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2019
  23. Chuck R.

    Chuck R. Member

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    This ^^^

    In addition to the safety aspect, and I too have had pressure spikes in the summer with a bolt sticking on a load that was fine in winter/fall, there's the accuracy aspect. I've had IMR4831 vary as much as 70 FPS in a load due to temps alone. I also saw differences in group size. I haven't seen an direct testing on the effect of accuracy, but IF we're chasing accuracy "nodes" what effect can/will a 70+ swing in MV have?

    Here's a pretty decent article that just covers temperature variations and their effects on MVs:

    https://precisionrifleblog.com/2016/06/19/powder-temp-stability-hodgdon-extreme-vs-imr-enduron/

    and a second:

    https://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/tag/temp-stability/

    So IF I can mitigate the effect of powder temp by choosing a more temp stable powder while still achieving the accuracy and velocity I'm looking for, why wouldn't I??
     
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  24. Captcurt

    Captcurt Member

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    I understand where you are coming from. I try to work my loads when the temps are pretty warm just so I don't run into stick bolt range. To be honest, I quit trying to make a magnum out of a standard caliber a long time ago. When my gun shoots MOA I'm a happy man. Even if it is a starting load.
     
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