.270 v. .30-30 v. 30-06

[gvnwst]

I know the .243 is also available in a 125gr round

the heaviest 6mm bullet is 115gr, and this is a match round.

So, if it were possible, wouldn't you want to get the lightest bullet you could to maximize your range and still put the same amount of energy into the bullet, and therefore into the animal?

lighter bullets are less aerodynamic, and lose their energy more quickly. 50gr bullets are mostly made for varminting. also, heavier bullets disperse their energy to the target better than lighter ones. well, varmint bullets, but do not try to hunt deer or larger with those.


As for the effective range of the .243, soem people take deer past 400yd.

 

[Geno]

Good questions. The depth of penetration can be effected by the bullet's sectional density, a calculation of the weight and diameter. It is basically the bullet's integrity...the ability to stay in one piece. With newer bullets, such as the Barnes X-bullet, sectional density nearly becomes a mute point, because it is a monolithe type bullet (solid but expandable). As to going with the lightest bullet, no, you still need enough energy (calculation of weight and velocity) to reach vitals.

My preferred bullet for the .243 cal is a 95 grain Nosler Partition. On the last deer I shot with that caliber, the bullet entered through the front of the chest (dead-center), and blew the deer's heart completely loose from all connective tissue. The bullet continued to penetrate the deer's whole body length. We retrieved the bullet under the skin just right of center. That was fired from a 6mm Remington, which is .243 cal.

 

[Shawnee]

Hi danxt


The .243 is the best deer caliber ever invented. It will cleanly and humanely kill any deer you ever see at any range you ever have any business taking a shot at. It will do so with more than one particular weight bullet.

In general, .243 bullets of 90grs or more are designed to penetrate better and expand slower which is to say they are designed for deer/antelope.

In general, .243 bullets of 85grs. or less are designed for very rapid expansion which is to say they are intended for varmints.... and they DO open up much faster. However I've found the Hornady 87gr. BTHP stays together much better than the lighter bullets. I also know someone who uses the 85gr. Sierra Gameking bullet with good success on deer.

I have killed a trainload of deer with one-shot kills using the Hornady 87gr. BTHP which - theoretically - is a "varmint" bullet. A couple have been beyond 400yds. I have dropped deer with the old 100gr. bullets beyond 300yds. Just recently I killed a doe at about 260yds. with one of the new Hornady 58-gr. V-max bullets - but that was a head shot. I also killed one at about 60yds. with that bullet with a lung shot - she went about 100 feet before keeling over. Though I am "two-for-two" with the 58-gr. V-max, I have decided to NOT use it anymore on deer. That is partly due to the fact that they are more affected by wind.

My rifle is (was) "zero'd" at 275 yds and here is the trajectory chart for it with the Hornady 95gr. SST bullet...

sst 95 gr., .355 B.C. www.hornady.com

Yardage 50 100 200 300 400 500
Vel (fps) 2966 2837 2588 2353 2130 1920
Energy 1856 1697 1413 1168 957 778
Traject, 1.2 3.0 3.2 -1.8 -13.1 -32.0

You can see that out to 300yds. I can use virtually the same point-of-aim and be sure of a lethal hit. From 350yds. to about 450yds a point-of-aim slightly above the top of the deer's back will produce a lethal hit (in the chest cavity).

The difference between the 95gr. bullets and 100gr/105gr. bullets is not enough to change that point-of-aim substantially. But of course you can always fine tune your sighting for the different bullet

The muzzle velocity of - for example - the 87gr. BTHP or the 95gr. SST can easily (and safely) be made to 3200fps. by reloading. I still favor the 87gr. BTHP (or spire point) because it will also open up well at shorter distances and I like to have the bullet expend all its' energy inside the deer.

The blast and recoil of the .243 are very, very modest and that is a tremendous aid to accurate shooting

(Sorry the numbers aren't spaced more evenly. I type them evenly spaced but the "translation" to the forum scrunches them all up)

HTH

 

[Shawnee]

One for the 6.5 Aficionados

Oooops

Meant to start a new thread

 

[Wolfgang2000]

danxt
Since it has become clear that the 30-30 is really only effective out to about 150yds, what would be the effective range of the .243 Win?

First I've SEEN a deer dropped with 1 30-30 round at 250 to 300 yards on several occasion's. Yes it takes a person that know his rifle and chosen load. But the 30-30 is a very capable round. The down side to a 30-30 is the limited platform for it. Usually just a lever action. If all I could have is a 30-30 lever action I wouldn't feel under gunned.

The 243 is a capable round, I just don't understand how we got from 270, 30-30, and 30-06, to 243???

There are many capable rifle rounds out there. What you need to figure out is which is popular in your area, and will handle the critters in your area. So preform the Wal-Mart test. Go to your local Wal-Mart and check and see which round they stock the most of. Why do this? The more of a particular caliber is in stock of a certain caliber the cheaper it is. This will also effect reloading supplies etc.

My local wally world has a whole shelf of 06, followed by a shelf of 30-30, then a third shelf that has a couple box's of each of the other calibers.

When I made my choice in the early 90's I chose 308. (Yes I know it goes against the Wal-Mart test.) However at that time 308 surplus was flooding the market, and I had access to 308 through work. It has worked for me, and I have not regretted the decision.

YOU have to make it work for YOU.

 

[TCB in TN]

First I've SEEN a deer dropped with 1 30-30 round at 250 to 300 yards on several occasion's. Yes it takes a person that know his rifle and chosen load. But the 30-30 is a very capable round. The down side to a 30-30 is the limited platform for it. Usually just a lever action. If all I could have is a 30-30 lever action I wouldn't feel under gunned.

The 243 is a capable round, I just don't understand how we got from 270, 30-30, and 30-06, to 243???

There are many capable rifle rounds out there. What you need to figure out is which is popular in your area, and will handle the critters in your area. So preform the Wal-Mart test. Go to your local Wal-Mart and check and see which round they stock the most of. Why do this? The more of a particular caliber is in stock of a certain caliber the cheaper it is. This will also effect reloading supplies etc.

My local wally world has a whole shelf of 06, followed by a shelf of 30-30, then a third shelf that has a couple box's of each of the other calibers.

When I made my choice in the early 90's I chose 308. (Yes I know it goes against the Wal-Mart test.) However at that time 308 surplus was flooding the market, and I had access to 308 through work. It has worked for me, and I have not regretted the decision.

YOU have to make it work for YOU.

You are correct, that deer have been taken out to that distance with the 30-30, but not consistently, by the average shooter. The .270 and 30-06 are flatter shooting and will be easier to hit with than the 30-30 at the longer distances.

I don't feel the "lever gun" is a limited platform, my Browning BLR in .308 will do the deal on just about anything that I personally care to shoot at. Now the traditional lever gun (Marlin/Winchester/etc) in 30-30 or 44mag etc. will be more limited but the new leverevolution ammo changes the equation a bit.

As for the .243 it is a great round, and as Shawnee has said, it is adequate to take pretty much any deer on this continent. I personally like a bigger bullet but if you put it right where it is supposed to be then it can certainly be effective out to 300+.

The Walmart test is a pretty good idea. Even if something else might be "better" what is available and commonly used will likely be effective and will also be cheaper than a better alternative that is less commonly used. BTW without even looking I will bet that .308, .270, 30-30, and 30-06 will ALL be plentiful at you basic hunting store, and chain sporting goods stores anywhere in the lower 48 and Alaska as well.

 

[Shawnee]

Gotta disagree with "The Walmart Test".

I know it sounds good at first blush but it just doesn't hold water, at least not very well. That's because the quaint notion of stocking what the consumer wants most applies mostly to small business and a lot less so to big chains who expect consumers to buy what is most profitable for the seller.

I was in the local Walmart and noticed they had a few boxes of 30/06 on the shelf and a case of 7mm/08s sitting on the floor waiting to be put on the shelf. I commented about it to the guy with the "manager" name tag and his response was that Walmart has a list of calibers that are commonly stocked but their stocking policy (re: quantity) is guided by which caliber(s) they can make the highest profit margin on (ie. which calibers they bought cheapest recently) - and NOT on which calibers are most popular locally. He also said individual stores may get shipments of calibers that turned out to be "overstocks" elsewhere in an apparent attempt to get rid of slow-moving inventory.

It is a lot easier for me to believe Walmart is a business guided by the bottom line than to believe they are an expert hunting supplier with the best interests of hunters as the guiding principle of their company.
So I, personally, am pretty skeptical of using the Walmart level of intelligence as a measure of local caliber popularity and certainly not as a measure of caliber effectiveness or appropriateness.

Local opinion may vary.

 

[danxt]

Wolfgang2000
The 243 is a capable round, I just don't understand how we got from 270, 30-30, and 30-06, to 243???

Sorry, I know it wasn't part of the original question, but since a few people commented on it's capabilities, and since I already have a .243, I thought it was worth discussing. Maybe I should have started a new thread to discuss the .243, but I figured this worked just as well, since we were already talking about it.

Shawnee
Yardage 50 100 200 300 400 500
Vel (fps) 2966 2837 2588 2353 2130 1920
Energy 1856 1697 1413 1168 957 778
Traject, 1.2 3.0 3.2 -1.8 -13.1 -32.0

You can see that out to 300yds. I can use virtually the same point-of-aim and be sure of a lethal hit. From 350yds. to about 450yds a point-of-aim slightly above the top of the deer's back will produce a lethal hit (in the chest cavity).

What is the Zero on this trajectory?

 

[The Bushmaster]

bejay. The .30-30 IS still taking more deer and deer sized game then any other calibre each year. It is a very viable cartridger in both the Marlin and Winchester lever rifles. Yes. It has it's limitations (200 yards), but I would rather pack it in the woods then my Browning .30-06. And I would rather pack my .30-06 when I expect to shoot longer distances and didn't have to put up with heavy timber and buck brush...

Don't discount the .30-30 yet. It ain't dead...Reloading die sets are still in the top 10 die sets purchased...

 

[Wolfgang2000]

danxt
Wolfgang2000
The 243 is a capable round, I just don't understand how we got from 270, 30-30, and 30-06, to 243???

Sorry, I know it wasn't part of the original question, but since a few people commented on it's capabilities, and since I already have a .243, I thought it was worth discussing. Maybe I should have started a new thread to discuss the .243, but I figured this worked just as well, since we were already talking about it.

As I sure you know the 243 is a necked down 308. A lot of people like it because it's recoil is less that a 308 or 06. It might have a slight edge on the 30-30, but not much, just a flatter trajectory.

If you already have a 243 I would pass on the 30-30 and look at the 06.

Again It's not that the rounds or "bad". YOU just need to find the one that fills YOUR needs. IMO the old 06 is still one of the most versatile rounds out there.

 

[Shawnee]

Hi Danxt...

"What is the Zero on this trajectory?"


275yds.


Hi Wolfgang...

"It (243) might have a slight edge on the 30-30, but not much, just a flatter trajectory."


Either your mind is gone or you've been forgetting to put the powder in your .243 handloads.

 

[TnBigBore]

If you like the way your 243 handles and you can shoot it well, it should be up to any deer hunting you will ever do. If you hunt mostly in the woods and your shots run mostly short there is no rifle that compares to a handy levergun.

The handiness factor cannot be overstated in a woods rifle. When I was a teenager and thought I needed the latest whizbang magnum I used to carry a heavy, cumberson, Hubble scoped bolt gun through the woods to my treedstand and shot bambi from 35 yards most of the time. I usually lost lots of meat as well. When I started plotting the distance of most of my shots and realized that they were nearly all under 100 yds, I wized up and bought a Marlin 336 in 35 Rem and mounted a nice small 2-7x scope on it. Since then, I rarely hunt with anything other than a Marlin or Savage 99 levergun.

The 30-30, 35, 32 Special and their ilk will not knock your socks off with their ballistics, but they flat kill deer if you are a decent shot, and without ruining much meat and knocking your fillings loose. People use way too much gun for whitetails. They really are not that hard to kill if you punch them through the lungs with a 55-405 grain bullet.