Quantcast
  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

2nd Amendment was written to control slaves ?

Discussion in 'Legal' started by bg, Jun 1, 2005.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. bg

    bg Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2003
    Messages:
    903
    Location:
    When you find out, let me know..
  2. El Tejon

    El Tejon Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    18,083
    Location:
    Lafayette, Indiana-the Ned Flanders neighbor to Il
    Professor Bogus? How apt. :D

    Complete and utter distortion and inane expansion of the 3/5s provision. Bogus' linking the right to arms over slavery fails the straight face test.

    The Second Amendment simply re-codified the right to arms of Americans that they enjoyed as Englishmen where there was no slavery in England. The right to arms predates slavery in the American South by thousands of years.

    Further, states which flatly forbid slavery had explicit right to arms provisions. E.g., "The people shall have the right to bear arms for the defense of themselves and the State." Indiana Constitution Article I, § 32.

    Applying Professor Bogus' test, why would Indiana recognize the right to arms? It had no slaves to police.

    I am shocked that this paper would print such a thing. Gun control in Chicago was used to disarm African Americans and here they are reveling in their helplessness. :scrutiny:
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2005
  3. Langenator

    Langenator Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2003
    Messages:
    2,689
    Location:
    Ft Belvoir, VA
    Well, if this Professor Bogus that the author is referencing can actually produce something written by Madison or anyone else involved in drafting the Amendmet (i.e. Congress) saying it's about controlling slaves, I'd be more inclined to give it credence.

    I haven't read anything about the slave issue being raised in deliberations/debates on the amendment. And Southerners in Congress weren't exactly what I'd call shy about defending their 'peculiar insitution' by name.

    No, they just say Madison 'didn't want to put it on the table' and then move to a discussion about slave patrols, basically telling us the Madison is a dead white rich guy who must have had some sort of ulterior motive.
     
  4. Rebar

    Rebar member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2003
    Messages:
    1,867
    That was so rediculous, it's difficult to even start tearing it down.
     
  5. Sistema1927

    Sistema1927 Member

    Joined:
    May 21, 2004
    Messages:
    4,393
    Location:
    "Land of (dis)Enchantment"
    Hard to believe when one understands that many of the early gun control measures were enacted to deprive newly freed blacks from exercising their right to self-defense.

    "Saturday Night Special" comes from "Ni--ertown Saturday Night Special", and the original laws banning these cheap handguns were intended to deprive those who couldn't afford more expensive weaponry.

    It is gun control that is racist, not the Second Amendment, which enumerates the God given right of all men to defend themselves.

    Gun control kills.
     
  6. Henry Bowman

    Henry Bowman Senior Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2002
    Messages:
    6,717
    Location:
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    Wow. That is one bizarro way of looking at things.

    So many law review articles (this bigot's referenced source) are just so much intellectual masterbation meant to show off how big and contortable the author's brain is.

    My motto in law school: "Make love, not law review."
     
  7. 2nd Amendment

    2nd Amendment member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    1,929
    Location:
    Indiana
    Why do you do this when you know someone is going to correct your error...for the next ten solid pages... :D
     
  8. Old Dog

    Old Dog Member

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2004
    Messages:
    4,487
    Location:
    somewhere on Puget Sound
    Hard to take seriously an eight-year-old law review article (UC-Davis?) Harder still to take when writings of the founding fathers lend an entirely different dimension to the arguments for the right to keep and bear arms than what Bogus attempts to prove. Here's Curry (himself a black man, interestingly) bashing Rice for making a great case for RKBA -- when, oh when, will liberal America (and liberal black America) stop finding fault with the founding fathers?
     
  9. Telperion

    Telperion Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2003
    Messages:
    1,482
    Location:
    Oregon
    Let's pick apart Professor Bogus' (help yourself to a joke on that one) claims:

    1. The meaning of the 2nd amendment is unclear. The founders were men of letters. They wrote down their thoughts and motivations, in the Federalist papers, and their private letters. Did he bother to read these?

    2. The 2nd amendment was written to arm state militias. News flash: "the people" means individuals. How many times do we have to go over this?

    3. State militias were used to repress slaves in the antebellum South. Okay, now we've actually reached something interesting. Bogus says they accomplished this in part by disarming slaves of any weapons they might use for starting an insurrection. Thus disarmed, slaves were powerless against their armed masters. So this is supposed to be an argument in favor of the narrow collective-rights interpretation? What about northern states that had militias and no slaves?
     
  10. geekWithA.45

    geekWithA.45 Moderator Emeritus

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2003
    Messages:
    9,038
    Location:
    SouthEast PA
    Yeah, slavery. Right.

    That's why all the northern, non slave states had RKBA clauses in their state constitutions too....
     
  11. gc70

    gc70 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2004
    Messages:
    2,980
    Location:
    North Carolina
    Because he loves flaunting his misconceptions? :eek:
     
  12. El Tejon

    El Tejon Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    18,083
    Location:
    Lafayette, Indiana-the Ned Flanders neighbor to Il
    gc, no misconception, just historical truth.

    2nd, I think it's important to acknowledge the obvious to clarify the issue. :)
     
  13. 2nd Amendment

    2nd Amendment member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    1,929
    Location:
    Indiana
    I am NOT rising to the bait this time. I refuse. You can't make me. :neener:
     
  14. El Tejon

    El Tejon Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    18,083
    Location:
    Lafayette, Indiana-the Ned Flanders neighbor to Il
    O.K., I'll edit post so we can focus. :cool: :)
     
  15. Justin

    Justin Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2002
    Messages:
    19,270
    Location:
    THE CHAIR IS AGAINST THE WALL
    Is it just me, or do the anti's seem to dream up their arguments and talking points like a big vat of spaghetti noodles which they then toss against a wall?

    Whatever sticks is what they will then repeat ad naseum in every media form they can get face or keyboard time with.
     
  16. Highland Ranger

    Highland Ranger Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2003
    Messages:
    2,299
    Location:
    New Jersey Highlands
    I refuse the click on the link.

    So . . . . . what do you think is better for self defense, the .45 or the 9mm?

    :neener:
     
  17. JohnBT

    JohnBT Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2002
    Messages:
    13,232
    Location:
    Richmond, Virginia
    The Carl T. Bogus?

    "BOARD AND ADVISORY PANEL MEMBERSHIPS

    VIOLENCE POLICY CENTER, Washington, DC
    National Advisory Panel, 1993-Present.

    SYRACUSE UNIVERSITY COLLEGE OF LAW
    Board of Visitors, 1979-2001.

    COMMON CAUSE OF RHODE ISLAND
    State Governing Board, 1999-2001.

    HANDGUN CONTROL, INC., Washington, DC
    Board of Governors, 1992-93, Board of Directors, 1987-89.

    THE CENTER TO PREVENT HANDGUN VIOLENCE, Washington, DC
    Board of Directors, 1989-92.

    LAWYERS ALLIANCE FOR WORLD SECURITY, Washington, DC
    Board of Directors, 1987-89."
     
  18. Standing Wolf

    Standing Wolf Member in memoriam

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    24,041
    Location:
    Idahohoho, the jolliest state
    Racism. It's all about racism all the time, right?
     
  19. Justin

    Justin Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2002
    Messages:
    19,270
    Location:
    THE CHAIR IS AGAINST THE WALL
    Gun control? Yeah, gun control is eaten right to the center with racial bigotry.
     
  20. skidmark

    skidmark Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2004
    Messages:
    451
    Location:
    virginia
    the following is from the "Nothing New" section of www.virginia1774.org and seems to contradict the absolute assertion that slaves (and Indians - how come nobody's mentioned Indians yet?) were to be absolutely prevented from owning and/or bearing arms.

    stay safe.

    skidmark
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2005
  21. Daedalus

    Daedalus Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2003
    Messages:
    520
    Location:
    Gainesville, Florida
    I have Read Professor Bogus' thrilling research and have found a further revelation:
    The right to free press was written only to ensure Slaveholders could post public notices of escaped slaves to aid in their apprehension.

    Obviously the constitution is racist we need to throw it out.
     
  22. dustind

    dustind Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2003
    Messages:
    1,581
    Location:
    St. Michael, MN
    I have had to deal with that a lot. A few other issues work the same way.

    Those idiots just say stuff, and based on how we respond determines whether or not they will say it again.

    If they where held accountable for their lies and the number of times they where wrong we would have completely won the gun control debate a long time ago. If John Lott screws up a tiny bit we never hear the end of it, but we are expected to stand still while they throw their feces at us on a daily basis. I think the main reason why the gun control groups no longer have any members (there are only a few thousand in the whole country, about a dozen in Minnesota) is because they come up with arguments that only make sense to the 100% uninformed. Once someone learns something or looks into things they quit, or even sometimes join our side.
     
  23. Dmack_901

    Dmack_901 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2004
    Messages:
    361
    Location:
    FL
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page