2nd Greatest Gun Designer
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Brian Williams
Moderator Emeritus
Kalishnikov, not only did he do the AK but many small arms and even up into the towed artillery sizes there might have been a sheer numbers of AK's made but He designed a whole lot more then most folks know about.
Maxim and Mauser have him neck and neck IMNSHO
Sam Colt is just the same basic design inproved over time to include improvements in ammo
Garand designed a few rifles...
Peterson developed quite a few but not as many as Kalishnikov
444 said
Maxim and Mauser have him neck and neck IMNSHO
Sam Colt is just the same basic design inproved over time to include improvements in ammo
Garand designed a few rifles...
Peterson developed quite a few but not as many as Kalishnikov
444 said
This is totally false...
Dollar Bill
Member
I readily concede the fact that John M. Browning was the greatest firearm designer. The second greatest has quite a few contenders that makes it difficult to choose. Kalashnikov's designs have certainly had a great impact on the world as has Mr. Stoner's. I'm glad someone finally mentioned Dieudonne Saive as the designer of the right arm of the free world, the FN-FAL and the fact that he took over from John Browning on the P-35. Mr. Garand's design may have been a one time design but when you get it right the first time, why keep trying to best yourself. I don't think Sam Colt was as much a designer as he was a marketing genius.
My choice for the second greatest arms designer would be Peter Paul Mauser whose design is still going strong today not so much as a military arms designer anymore but rather as a designer who influenced sporting arms to this day. Few bolt action sporting rifles do not lay claim to Mauser lineage.
My choice for the second greatest arms designer would be Peter Paul Mauser whose design is still going strong today not so much as a military arms designer anymore but rather as a designer who influenced sporting arms to this day. Few bolt action sporting rifles do not lay claim to Mauser lineage.
Eskimo Jim
Member
Horace Smith and Daniel Wesson. One of them came up with the counter bored cylinder or something like that.
That design was used for revolvers for how many years? to this present day possibly?
-Jim
That design was used for revolvers for how many years? to this present day possibly?
-Jim
entropy
Member
2nd greatest
ELi Whitney. If it wasn't for his development of standardization and mass production, we'd all still be shooting individually produced weapons. John C. Garand gets a darn close third, though. Oh, heck, I'll just save time and put up my list:
1. JMB
2. Eli Whitney
3. John C. Garand
4. Anton Kalishnikov
5. Sam Colt
6. Sergei Mosin (OK, maybe mauser should be ahead of him, but I collect Mosins!
)
7.Eugene Stoner
8. Peter Paul Mauser
9. Georg Luger
10. Uziel Gal
I've limited it to ten for brevity's sake, there are many honorable mentions (and some unmentionables, too! )
ELi Whitney. If it wasn't for his development of standardization and mass production, we'd all still be shooting individually produced weapons. John C. Garand gets a darn close third, though. Oh, heck, I'll just save time and put up my list:
1. JMB
2. Eli Whitney
3. John C. Garand
4. Anton Kalishnikov
5. Sam Colt
6. Sergei Mosin (OK, maybe mauser should be ahead of him, but I collect Mosins!
)7.Eugene Stoner
8. Peter Paul Mauser
9. Georg Luger
10. Uziel Gal
I've limited it to ten for brevity's sake, there are many honorable mentions (and some unmentionables, too!
)hops
Member
I'd add Hugo Schmeisser - Bergmann MP18/1 (orginal design with 20 round box magazine), the MP28 and his design Team at Haenel also created the MKb.42h (MP43) - the papa of all modern assault rifles. He also designed a handgun and had his hand in other firearms.
It is interesting to speculate how much 'input' Schmeisser had in the AK-47 design. Mr. Kalishnikov had the chance to learn from a master. He was captured by the Russians in eastern germany where Haenel was located.
It is interesting to speculate how much 'input' Schmeisser had in the AK-47 design. Mr. Kalishnikov had the chance to learn from a master. He was captured by the Russians in eastern germany where Haenel was located.
RustyHammer
Member
John C. Garand
Brian Williams
Moderator Emeritus
I have to bring up the fact that the Whitney rifles that were tested were tweaked by Whitney prior to the demonstration and manufacturing standards and production capabilities were not up to Whitney's idea of Mass production yet. The Industrial revolution had to happen before companies could do what Whitney wanted. Whitney's laborer did a lot of hand filing and fitting, while many of his parts were interchangeable they still had to be chosen to fit.
I will give Whitney alot of credit for putting into place the start of modern batch production.
I will give Whitney alot of credit for putting into place the start of modern batch production.
George Hill
Member
#2 Dieudonne Saive.
#3 Kalishnakov.
#3 Kalishnakov.
Marshall
Member
The Big S.C.
And, Mr. Stephen Savage Remington
And, Mr. Stephen Savage Remington
PATH
Member
in order:
2) Kalashnikov
3) Sam Colt
4) Hiram Maxim
5) Mauser
2) Kalashnikov
3) Sam Colt
4) Hiram Maxim
5) Mauser
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I can't give it to Sam Colt. He was a good at marketing and the revolver predated him by centuries. He came along just when the machinery was advanced enough to produce revolvers in large quantities. It's more of a triumph of the industrial revolution than to Sam Colt's genius.
If we use the Browning standard, then it would have to be Garand. Self trained machinist. He wasn't as prolific as Browning but then again he worked to meet gubmint design standards. Like Browning, he was handy in the tool room and when he was told that it would take 2 years to gear up and make the jigs & fixtures to assemble the Garand, John Garand scoffed and went to the tool room and did it himself for 6 months. He didn't profit from his inventions because he was a patriot (and a Canadian to boot).
I'd give Kalashnikov a lot of credit too, but his designs weren't the first. Federov came out with the first gun that really qualified as an "assault gun." The Germans followed with the Stgw44. Kalashnikov took a lot of excellent ideas and combined them into an outstanding package. He deserves a lot of credit for making one of the best military guns of his time (much like Mauser does for the bolt action 98).
Maxim ranks up there but wasn't as prolific as Browning. Methinks he had more medical training (like Gatling) did than mechanical but being open minded, took the advice of one American who suggested that he find a wind to help the Europeans cut each other's throats faster. Maxim = Vickers = Sothrun, essentially all the same machinegun that chewed up an entire generation of young men.
I'm hesitant to put Eugene Stoner up there too. He was also clever in using the gas impingment system (something the French thought up before WW I). However, the versatility of the Stoner Weapon System as manifested in the AR-15 goes to the tinkerers who made it into a SMG, to the target shooters who built space guns and not to Stoner.
Gaston Glock is kinda like Kalashnikov. He took a bunch of good ideas and put them into a working package. He then had a good marketing team make it one of the premier police pistols of this country. However, design wise, the Glock has nothing new as polymers were used before (HK VP70) Gaston came around.
I won't give it to Uzi either. He really knew how to make good things better but the telescoping bolt SMG design was developed by the Czechs first.
If I had to reach back and find another 19th century inventory, he wasn't even a gun designer. It would be Claude Minie who designed the minie ball. It made the basic infantry small arm as accurate as a rifle and loaded as rapidly as a musket. The conical bullet of Claude Minie lives with us today.
If we use the Browning standard, then it would have to be Garand. Self trained machinist. He wasn't as prolific as Browning but then again he worked to meet gubmint design standards. Like Browning, he was handy in the tool room and when he was told that it would take 2 years to gear up and make the jigs & fixtures to assemble the Garand, John Garand scoffed and went to the tool room and did it himself for 6 months. He didn't profit from his inventions because he was a patriot (and a Canadian to boot).
I'd give Kalashnikov a lot of credit too, but his designs weren't the first. Federov came out with the first gun that really qualified as an "assault gun." The Germans followed with the Stgw44. Kalashnikov took a lot of excellent ideas and combined them into an outstanding package. He deserves a lot of credit for making one of the best military guns of his time (much like Mauser does for the bolt action 98).
Maxim ranks up there but wasn't as prolific as Browning. Methinks he had more medical training (like Gatling) did than mechanical but being open minded, took the advice of one American who suggested that he find a wind to help the Europeans cut each other's throats faster. Maxim = Vickers = Sothrun, essentially all the same machinegun that chewed up an entire generation of young men.
I'm hesitant to put Eugene Stoner up there too. He was also clever in using the gas impingment system (something the French thought up before WW I). However, the versatility of the Stoner Weapon System as manifested in the AR-15 goes to the tinkerers who made it into a SMG, to the target shooters who built space guns and not to Stoner.
Gaston Glock is kinda like Kalashnikov. He took a bunch of good ideas and put them into a working package. He then had a good marketing team make it one of the premier police pistols of this country. However, design wise, the Glock has nothing new as polymers were used before (HK VP70) Gaston came around.
I won't give it to Uzi either. He really knew how to make good things better but the telescoping bolt SMG design was developed by the Czechs first.
If I had to reach back and find another 19th century inventory, he wasn't even a gun designer. It would be Claude Minie who designed the minie ball. It made the basic infantry small arm as accurate as a rifle and loaded as rapidly as a musket. The conical bullet of Claude Minie lives with us today.
Chuck Jennings
Member
Gaston Glock!!
Just ask him, he'll tell you!!
Just ask him, he'll tell you!!
Patent Works
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The second greatest hasn't become famous yet. He may not yet have been born.
"Kalishnikov, not only did he do the AK but many small arms and even up into the towed artillery sizes there might have been a sheer numbers of AK's made but He designed a whole lot more then most folks know about."
Do you have any web based information on this ? I am not challenging you, but I have never heard this before. I am no historian, but I have read and watched various things about the man and never heard of it. Were these designs put into production ? Were they ever used ? Were they whole guns or modifications to existing ones ?
I was also wondering about Mauser. I wonder how many rifles have been built all over the world based on his design ? There are still rifles today based on that design. The '03 Springfield was based on that design. Back in the early to mid 20th Century, pretty much every nation in the world other than Russia was using a rifle based on the Mauser design. I wonder what the numbers were ?
Do you have any web based information on this ? I am not challenging you, but I have never heard this before. I am no historian, but I have read and watched various things about the man and never heard of it. Were these designs put into production ? Were they ever used ? Were they whole guns or modifications to existing ones ?
I was also wondering about Mauser. I wonder how many rifles have been built all over the world based on his design ? There are still rifles today based on that design. The '03 Springfield was based on that design. Back in the early to mid 20th Century, pretty much every nation in the world other than Russia was using a rifle based on the Mauser design. I wonder what the numbers were ?
Bostonterrier97
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Hugo Schmeiser. He designed the Stg 44. Along with other machine guns.
Mauser and James Paris Lee run a pretty close second.
Mauser and James Paris Lee run a pretty close second.
otomik
Member
guys you haven't mentioned:
George Kellgren (tec-9, grendel, all kel-tecs) with the exception of the tec-9 they're all very innovative designs.
Tullio Marengoni of Beretta
the walther guys that made the PP, the first double action automatic pistol.
George Kellgren (tec-9, grendel, all kel-tecs) with the exception of the tec-9 they're all very innovative designs.
Tullio Marengoni of Beretta
the walther guys that made the PP, the first double action automatic pistol.
Colt, Smith and Wesson should be close to heart of any American gunner.
Mssr.s Maxim, Mauser and Kalashnikov redefined the use of small arms on amassive scale. IE the Hi-Cap pistol, the Machine Gun and the tough as nails AK.
Kalashnikov designed over oversaw much of what is in front line service in Russia, and the former Warsaw Pact and former Soviet allies.
Comrade Kalashnikov IS the Russian JMB.
That's a pretty close second.
Mssr.s Maxim, Mauser and Kalashnikov redefined the use of small arms on amassive scale. IE the Hi-Cap pistol, the Machine Gun and the tough as nails AK.
Kalashnikov designed over oversaw much of what is in front line service in Russia, and the former Warsaw Pact and former Soviet allies.
Comrade Kalashnikov IS the Russian JMB.
That's a pretty close second.
sitkablacktail
Member
Borchardt would be one to toss into the ring, as would Ballard or Lee. Newton all though he was never realy a gun designer, but as far as being a head of his time in development of cartridges he should be noted.
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