3" Cylinder Taurus Judge and Win PDX1

Discussion in 'Handguns: Revolvers' started by XenopusTex, Sep 18, 2016.

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  1. XenopusTex

    XenopusTex Member

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    I revisited this particular weapon that I inherited, after disliking how it handled .45Colt. Find that it peels jacketing material off at times.

    Took it out to the range today and fired a cylinder of Winchester's 3" PDX1 .410 ammunition through it at a 7 yard target to mostly simulate distances in my house.

    With 16 BB pellets x5 rounds (or 80 pellets), one would expect a good number to land on the 12x16 target I set up. All of the "discs" hit fine, with a bit of a spread from them. Four discs x5 rounds and all could be accounted for. I found that less than 10% of the BB pellets appear to have struck the target. I know that I'm not the world's greatest shot, but can definitely do better than 10% of shots on a 12x16 target at 7 yards.

    I realize that some may have gone through the holes from the discs, but still 7 visible impacts out of 80 projectiles. The pellets seem to fall into the category of spray 'n' pray. Not sure how I like that kind of performance. Seems to have too much of a margin for errors to occur.

    The Judge kind of looks to be somewhat underpowered for the storm and stress it creates. It makes a loud noise, and spews a lot of chunks of lead, but at the end of the day, it doesn't seem to do much. I guess for home defense in an high density urban environment it might be okay, have seen the results of it versus drywall + insulation. But, for anything over point-blank range, I'd much rather have my 147grain 9mm HST's than that thing.

    Am I missing something? Is there a loading that works better?
     
  2. 460Shooter

    460Shooter Member

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    Nope, don't think so. The Judge can certainly be effective at short range, and no one will volunteer to stand in front of one, but a traditional gun is going to be just as effective IMO.

    You could try out the Federal Handgun 410 shells.
     
  3. Ed Ames

    Ed Ames Member

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    The judge (and similar) are most appealing to a very specific type of gun buyer. Well, two specific types.

    One type is the "guns are fun" crowd that sees it as fun because it is different and will mainly use it to shoot thrown targets and other fun stuff like that. Best outcome for these folks is that it also shoots .45c well. If these folks ever decided to use a judge for self defense they would load it with .45.

    The other type is the "I want something loud and intimidating but I don't actually want to hurt anyone, and I don't know much about guns" crowd. These are the "sound of a pump shotgun being racked is the biggest protection, I would rather have 5 Rds of 12ga than 30rd of .223" people, bringing that same view to the handgun world. Included in this group are people who buy into the idea that birdshot is a viable self defense option because their home/workplace/whatever is arranged to put likely attackers between the would-be defender and bystanders.

    Neither group gets a huge amount of respect around here.

    Personally, I think the judge type guns are great fun but I think they are more for popping thrown soda cans than anything practical.
     
  4. stolivar

    stolivar Member

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    pdx is terrible idea

    You get no penitration or pattern with the stuff. You are better off with the federal 000 buck configuration.

    I also found that the Judge does not pattern very well at any yardage unless you get a good one and the S&W Governor does very well.

    Here is a video that shows how tight the Governor is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m85Mr_XTiPI


    steve
     
  5. bassdogs

    bassdogs Member

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    Ok another Judge hater thread. Wasn't going to comment as this argument has been worn out over the years. But just so you know we are out there, I love my Judge public defender. I load it with 2 federal #3 buck followed by a 45 jacketed HP and then another 410 and 45. I think the poster left out a group of people who chose the Judge because they do not get the opportunity to maintain accuracy with a standard handgun. My wife is not a regular shooter and she finds a semi auto too technical to operate safely and prefers a revolver. At 5 -7 yards the Judge is both on target and lethal when loaded properly. I do not believe that birdshot is a good SD load nor to I recommend the PDI 410 loads with the disks. The short barrel on the public defender makes it easy to carry in a belt pouch or ladies purse.

    My personal weapon of choice is a 357 ruger service six w/4" barrel. The Judge is primarily the weapon that my wife keeps in her bedstand and in the car console when she travels by herself.

    If you don't like a Judge don't buy one and don't shoot one. But to some of us they are a lot more effective than has been quoted by the previous posters.
     
  6. Ed Ames

    Ed Ames Member

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    I don't see any judge hate here. Well, I guess you could say there's a certain amount of Ford vs. Chevy going on re the judge vs governor, but they aren't that different.

    There isn't any question about the effectiveness of these guns. Load them with .45c and they are plenty effective. They have a huge advantage over most SD handguns in that they allow dynamic shooting practice against thrown targets, which is exactly the sort of practice most of us don't get enough of at conventional "stand and punch holes in paper" shooting ranges.

    There is a huge and valid question about the effectiveness of shot shells from a revolver. There is also a question about marketing a gun for self defense based on a feature that is not optimal for self defense. But that doesn't stop them from being fun.
     
  7. bassdogs

    bassdogs Member

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    You say no hate here but its the same as the other past threads on the subject. Just look at how the "groups" are defined who own and shoot the Judge. Wimpy office workers who don't really want to hurt anyone and ones who thing guns are for fun and throw stuff in the air. What the op is really testing is the worthless nature of the PDX 410 round. That has been well documented and it is a surprise to me that they still sell them. The last comment that these groups don't get much love here pretty much sums up the hate.

    I challenge the OP to repeat the test using federal 3buck and 45lc loads that I described. He will find that the 3buck at 5 - 7 yards will pattern neatly in a 3-5 inch area. I guess the throw stuff in the air comment [have never even thought about doing that with my Judge] may speak to the value of on target rather than a miss with a bullet.
     
  8. fireman 9731

    fireman 9731 Member

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    You pretty much summed it up. You might want to add that it is bulkier, heavier, and recoil is fairly significant compared to other options.
     
  9. PowerG

    PowerG Member

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    Pretty popular as a snake gun among the arrowhead hunting community, I hear they work pretty well for that. I probably know a dozen people who've bought them. Too heavy for me.
     
  10. Ed Ames

    Ed Ames Member

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    Huh? Where is who owns and shoots a judge even mentioned in this thread?

    I mentioned the main (not only, but primary) groups the judge appeals to. The fact that something appeals doesn't say anything about ownership or shooting.

    For example, I own a Governor. Does it particularly appeal to me? No, but I like to be able to speak from first hand experience and it really is fun so it is part of my collection even though it isn't something that really speaks to me based on its salient features.

    For another example: The OP owns a judge, which he "inherited".

    You are seriously projecting here. I said nothing about office workers or "wimpy". As for people who think guns are fun and throw stuff in the air, that's a pretty awesome group of people so why are you complaining?

    It's a fact that those groups don't get much respect around here, but to call that observation hate is like calling a dictionary bigoted because it defines the word. But that's not important. You want to be offended so you are going to be offended.

    And you are seriously missing out if you haven't tried shooting thrown targets with one of these things. It's like having a boat that never leaves your back yard...say whatever you want about "never thinking about it" but the fact is that a boat that spends it's whole life on a trailer is just a missed opportunity, and so is a judge that has never been used for the one thing it is uniquely able to do.
     
  11. evidrine

    evidrine Member

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    They judge is a point and shoot gun. It's for those who understand the reality of a middle of the night break in where there is no time to grab your gun, turn on the lights, and take steady aim to hit your intruder. When you are startled from sleep and have someone coming into your room you need to be able to point and shoot with the best chances of hitting your target. If you think they will stand still while you reach for something next to your bed you would be mistaken. The judge is also way easier to grab and swing around than any shotgun. Many say it is under powered, only if you don't use the correct ammunition. I don't think anyone in their right mind would think its smart to use bird shot as a self defense round. I would put an intruder up against 6 rounds of buckshot any day of the week. Even if it is coming out of a .410. Let's not forget that after you catch your bearings you can easily follow up with slugs or .45lc. I think that many get too focused on their opinions and forget that it is still and deadly firearm. It may not be your cup of tea but let's be honest, as a home defence gun it can and will do the trick.

    Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk
     
  12. MyGreenGuns

    MyGreenGuns Member

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    I used to have a Judge.

    My issue with it was the shotshell pattern. The rifling in the barrel makes the pattern open very quickly. It seems like the majority of pellets will miss its target.

    I traded it after trying to shoot leftover pumpkins and not getting hits.

    The gun was fun, but I can't take it seriously.
     
  13. RealGun

    RealGun Member

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    Since the load I tried in Federal #4 (not sure if that's #4 birdshot or #4 buckshot) doesn't actually spread very much but more than bigger shot (see hickock45), it is not a substitute for being a good shooter. Anyone who thinks they have a scatter gun at defensive distance is mistaken.

    Note that most of my gun collection are "fun guns" in the end. Shot nothing but paper in years. I don't pack my Judge and prefer the Glock model 22 for a bedroom gun. Meanwhile, my revolver side arm is on the dresser also and within easy reach.

    I should add, to be on topic, that I have PDX1 ammo, but find it too expensive to shoot for giggles.
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2016
  14. RealGun

    RealGun Member

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    What shot size were you using? The spreads vary.
     
  15. MyGreenGuns

    MyGreenGuns Member

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    #4 .. Seemed to never hit the center
    PDX-1 .. Coins cluster closely, pellets scatter off center
     
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