30-06 165gr SPCL @ MV 2400-2500fps safety issues

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Jobber

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I am considering a single base powder load for 30-06 165gr SPCL, with MV 2400-2500fps. This is at or just below the starting loads for the powders below.

Hodgdon IMR-4350 (originally DuPont) introduced just before WW2 in 1940.
52gr / MV 2546fps / 46700psi chamber pressure. (old Sierra 47.5gr / MV 2400fps)

Hodgdon IMR-4895 (originally DuPont) designed for the M1 Garand in WW2.
44.4gr / MV 2536fps / 45100psi chamber pressure.

Vihtavuori N160 website 46.9gr / MV 2428fps. (19XX VV guide has 58gr @ 50000psi)

Hodgdon H4895 recommended for up to 60% reduced recoil loads.
43gr / MV 2601fps / 41000psi chamber pressure.

So my question is would going 1-2 grains below the starting loads cause chamber pressure spikes and/or detonation issues. Any comments are appreciated.
 
I have experience with downloading only one of the 4 powders you mention.

I have reduced the charge of IMR 4895 by up to 20% of MAX CHARGES in several cartridges, with a projectile of standard weight for the rifle. Running the test rounds over a chrono has shown no indication of detonation issues or pressure spikes.
Generally, the Extreme Spread at 80% of max was comparable to max charge spreads.

If you have a chrono, my recommendation is to begin at starting charges and work your way down in judicious steps.
Once below 80% of max, watch closely for velocity swings. With those slower powders, a filler may be an option.
 
I would recommend H4895 simply because you are able to download it without problems. You can probably do the same thing with IMR4895, but there is no question with H4895.

Using IMR4895 in my M1 Garand (24" barrel) 47grn IMR4895 gives me a sedate 2650fps with a 150grn bullet, 45.5grn IMR4895 gives me 2550fps with a 168grn Nosler BTHP. Those are my loads from Hornady's Service Rifle data, service rifle data is usually a bit lower than published data for hunting bullets... but is still safe in any serviceable rifle. The caveat to that is, data is usually for non-hunting bullets, so you would have to adjust the starting load a bit.

I would also think about what Varmint says... looking at a powder like IMR3031 might be a better choice.
 
Jobber said:
would going 1-2 grains below the starting loads cause chamber pressure spikes and/or detonation issues
Click to expand...
Not with H4895 . Hodgdon has youth loads a lot lower.

The IMR 4895 works well also. I loaded cast bullets with it in 30-06 & 30-30.

IMR 4350 is to slow a powder, but have seen it used in a 3030. Not my choice.

SAFETY ISSUE- use this brass for the reduced loads only. Head to data may become shorter. Firing full pressure loads may cause brass to stretch, possible case separations.
 
Agreed. Either brand of 4895. Hodgdon specifically mentions 60% loads and DuPont used to say 3/5 loads were ok.

I don't recall hearing the "detonation" legend told of .30-06 but 4350 would probably be pretty erratic if loaded that low.
 
Thanks for the comments. A little about me, I bought my 700BDL over 50 years ago. At that time the .30-06 was touted as the do all – be all cartridge. I immediately had to have a Decelerator pad installed to deal with the 180gr factory loads of 2700-2900fps. I hope I’m not ready for factory reduced recoil (and bullet weight). Hopefully dropping both bullet weight and velocity somewhat is suitable solution.

Hodgdon IMR-4350 - is stated as a go-to .30-06 powder. It is also temperature sensitive.
Hodgdon IMR-4895 – it is good to know a slight reduction is acceptable, and that accuracy doesn’t suffer at lower velocities.
Vihtavuori N160 – is kind of a toss-up with N150. It’s like they are almost interchangeable. I have not been able to find definitive information for my proposed loading.
Hodgdon H4895 – probably gives me the widest range and flexibility for load development, and it’s temperature insensitive. Does anyone have an accuracy data for this powder, at other than full charge?

Starline has come out with .30-06 brass, and I was planning to use this as a control, for load development, to have consistency. Once I feel satisfied, I can think about my “mixed” manufacturer of “mixed” rifle fired supply.
 
Jobber said:
Hodgdon IMR-4895 – it is good to know a slight reduction is acceptable, and that accuracy doesn’t suffer at lower velocities.
Click to expand...

Two things here. Hodgdon does not make powder and they do not own the powder mill that does, they are just the distributor. IMR powders are made in Canada as they have been since DuPont quit bothering in 1976. The last time I looked, the IMR plant was owned by General Dynamics. So I do not think of it as "Hodgdon IMR."
Secondly, DuPont long ago said IMR 4895 was suitable for reduced loads down to 3/5 of maximum which is just what Hodgdon is saying about their Australian made product.

Jobber said:
Hodgdon H4895 – probably gives me the widest range and flexibility for load development, and it’s temperature insensitive. Does anyone have an accuracy data for this powder, at other than full charge?
Click to expand...

Accuracy will have to be determined by actual shooting in YOUR rifle. You will have a good chance, the old, old 300 meter target load was very slow, a 173 gr NM boattail at only 2200 fps. Pity they don't make Hi Vel No 2 powder any more.

Unless you have N160 on the shelf, I would not pay Vihtavuori prices until and unless I found 4895 unsatisfactory.
 
Jim,
Thanks for the information on "173gr bullet at 2200fps, with IMR-4895, and the 3/5 "allowance" for this powder. I had not considered that low a velocity. It looks like that could work also - below.
Is IMR-4895 temperature sensitive as IMR-4350?

30-06

30-06

30-06 velocity / energy
 
Jobber said:
Is IMR-4895 temperature sensitive as IMR-4350?
Click to expand...

I don't use IMR4350, but IMR4895 is temp sensitive, but not anything crazy. Let me put it this way... I also use IMR4895 in my .308 loads in my M1a, I have greater velocity swings with factory or surplus ammo than my IMR4895 handloads. Typical surplus is ball powder... which is even more temp sensitive than extruded powder, generally. I shoot in the 50-60's, and again as high as 120F, in the NV desert. My handloads are moderate, so even the temp swings don't put them into dangerous territory.

As Jim mentioned, your particular rifle may love or hate any powder/load combo... you will just have to lay your monies down, and takes your chances. ;)

You also mentioned new brass as a control group... I wouldn't bother. Just cull out 20 or so of your cases with the same headstamp, and, if possible, the same headstamp font (there are differences in lettering, spacing, etc...) and roll with it. If you need a small lot of the same cases, I have some...
 
Jobber said:
Is IMR-4895 temperature sensitive as IMR-4350?
Click to expand...
This information on Hodgdon's site doesn't directly compare IMR 4895 to IMR 4350. However it does show temperature sensitivity comparisons between H4350 (4 fps) and IMR 4350 (67 fps) in 30-06 plus comparison between H4895 (20 fps) and IMR 4895 (166 fps) in 22-250, for temperature difference between 0°F & 125°F.

https://hodgdon.com/extreme-rifle-powders/
 
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If you are worried about temperature creating a safety issue with the reduced loads, I think you need not worry. If you are concerned the velocity changes as noted in Mr. Zorg's post would change your accuracy or point of impact, the only way to really know is to load some up and test them in the conditions noted.

I can say that I developed the loads for my Tikka T3 Hunter in .30-06 (IMR 45350 w/ Hornady 150 gr. Spire Points) in the AZ desert in summer time temperatures (100 F - 115 degrees F). I hunt SW SD (near Martin, SD) in the middle of November (30 degrees F to 45 degrees F) and there is no noticeable change in point of impact.

I hope this helps.
 
To clear a few facts Hodgdon has owned IMR since 2003. Not that that makes a difference here other than you can get the latest IMR loading recipes from the Hodgdon web site. I went to Hornady 10th edition powder manual and Lyman's 50th edition. You are still within minimum loads using either 4895 powders and minimum for IMR 4550 is 52.5. You might try those loads first and see how they do. My brother and I are both in our late 60's with shoulder issues and neither of us are a glutton for recoil in our Remington 700 30.06's. We both shoot either 150 or 165 gr. SPs @2700 fps and find them much easier than 180s. You realize of course, a 150 SP will help further and so would heavy clothing and/or a magnum shoulder pad underneath your shirt..
 
I think you're safe with either of the IMR powders you mention. No experience with the Viht in that speed. I have loaded IMR 4350 at the start load with 180 grain 30-06 and got fine results. The purpose was to make a "wife-suitable" load for the camp rifle in case of bear. Accuracy was very good and recoil quite manageable. Using a Norma Alaska 180 RN, penetration and expansion in various mediums were acceptable for the purpose.

Is your purpose the same as mine, a low recoiling 30-06 load? If you really want to go slow as in for a youth shooter, Unique or Trail Boss with a lighter bullet is a great combination for practice ammo.
 
I tried the H4895 down-loads in my 30-06 Model 700LH and just could not get the accuracy that I wanted. Best of luck to you. The factory reduced loads shot pretty well.
 
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