Quantcast
  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

30-06, Cast Bullet, Unique

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by Hungry1, Oct 27, 2012.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Hungry1

    Hungry1 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2012
    Messages:
    236
    Location:
    NC
    Anyone have information about 165 gr RNFP Cast Bullet, plain base, over Unique in 30-06?

    I bought some Missouri bullet .309s for my Marlin 336 Micro Groove. I need .311s and am considering loading these up in my Springfield 30-06. The Powder I have on hand is Unique.

    Any information appreciated.

    Thanks.
     
  2. blarby

    blarby Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2011
    Messages:
    5,144
    Location:
    Calapooia Oregon
  3. 35 Whelen

    35 Whelen Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2008
    Messages:
    2,764
    Location:
    North Texas
    I've loaded gobs of 30-06 with cast bullets and shotgun/pistol powder (Bullseye, Red Dot, AA#7, AL2400), and they all worked very, very well, but never used Unique. I have however loaded quite a bit of it in the .303 British with cast and jacketed bullets. 12.0 grs. gave really good accuracy. That load will be quite light in your 30-06.
    My RCBS Cast Bullet manual for the 30-06 lists a 175 gr. bullet with 15.0 grs. of Unique for 1607 fps and 17.0 grs. for 1735 fps.
    Good luck
     
  4. A Pause for the Coz

    A Pause for the Coz Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2009
    Messages:
    339
    I use Unique some and it works fine. But If I may suggest, try 2400 with cast.

    I have used Unique, Universal, Bluedot, Herco, pistol powders in my 30 cal rifles and have found useful loads to shoot.
    But none of them compare to the groups I get with 2400.
    Ok maybe I should not say groups. i get real tight groups with my 30-30 using 8.5 gr Unique. But they only go about 1200 fps.
    I get the same group with 16gr of 2400 but they are zipping in the mid 1700 fps range.

    One other thing to note. What is the hardness of those cast bullets you have?
    I have some 170 gr .310 lazer cast. They are 23bn.
    I could not get a hard cast bullet to fly with any pistol powder loads. The bullets just dont expand to fill the bore properly.( too hard)
    They shoot just fine gas checked ahead of Rifle powder like H4895 Just need to kick them in the butt.

    They do shoot accurately ahead of Trail Boss. Trail Boss has some VOODOO going on for cast bullets.
    It blasts hard but pushes soft.

    I have found the same results with what ever rifle I have tried.
    30-30, 308 win, 8mm Mauser, 7.62x54 and 7.62x39

    Softer lead, WW's works good for pistol powders,
    Harder lead for Rifle powders.
    Trail Boss is the wild card. it shoots them all well, just not fast.
     
  5. wgaynor

    wgaynor Member

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2009
    Messages:
    903
    Location:
    Western Kentucky
    Load Data from Lyman's Cast Bullet Handbook:

    160 gr (#2 Alloy) 3.050" OAL BC .245
    Unique 18grains @1853fps starting load
    MAX LOAD IS 24 GRAINS AT 2182FPS

    170 gr (#2 alloy) 3.013OAL BC .202
    Unique 12 grains@1508fps starting load
    MAX LOAD IS 16.5 GRAINS @1842

    Hope that helps. It will give you a place to start.

    I recommend slugging your barrel first because an undersized projectile can cause leading (along with other contributing factors.
     
  6. Hungry1

    Hungry1 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2012
    Messages:
    236
    Location:
    NC
    Thanks for the info fellas. I appreciate the powder recommendations too. :)

    A Pause for the Coz, the box is labeled Brinell 18, optimized for .30-.30 lever guns.
     
  7. Gunnerboy

    Gunnerboy Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2011
    Messages:
    1,135
    Location:
    Over the hills and far away
    Awesome just what i was gonna ask about, i got a bannerman mosin in 3006 and have unique and cast bullets laying around.....
     
  8. wgaynor

    wgaynor Member

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2009
    Messages:
    903
    Location:
    Western Kentucky
    I can't recommend enough the importance of slugging your barrel first. It saves you from experiencing an exercise in futility and in scrubbing lead out of a barrel.
     
  9. Hungry1

    Hungry1 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2012
    Messages:
    236
    Location:
    NC
    Too late, thanks though. :)

    All part of my learning curve I guess. The brush wrapped in Chore Boy helped. :D

    Question:

    I'm thinking of using a different powder. One that will give me a little more velocity and help seal the bore. I'm thinking 2400 or maybe IMR 4198. I have no experience with either.

    I'm not using gas checks with these bullets.

    Any advice, criticism or suggestions?

    Thanks
     
  10. wgaynor

    wgaynor Member

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2009
    Messages:
    903
    Location:
    Western Kentucky
    I wouldn't worry about switching powders yet. First, do you know your bore size? Did you size your bullet (if cast yourself)? If you cast your own, did you apply the right type and amount of lube?

    Keep in mind that an undersized bullet is one of the biggest factors in barrel leading. The others are: too much pressure/velocity, copper fouling in barrel, out of round bullet, wrong type or not enough bullet lube.

    Edit: Just reread your original post. Did you slug your barrel?
     
  11. Hungry1

    Hungry1 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2012
    Messages:
    236
    Location:
    NC
    Yea, I got a measurement of .3095. I ordered some Hunter Supply .311 bullets to try out. I haven't started casting my own yet.

    Reason I'm asking for powder recommendations is that I ordered some Unique from Midway a while back that was "lost" (stolen) in transit. They'll most likely end up sending a replacement out after UPS "looks" for it :rolleyes: and I'm thinking of giving another a try as I'm set with about 4.5 lbs of Unique.
     
  12. wgaynor

    wgaynor Member

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2009
    Messages:
    903
    Location:
    Western Kentucky
    You'll have good results with the .311 sized bullet. Give me a few and I'll look in my load book for you on the powders. I'm casting bullets right now.
     
  13. Hungry1

    Hungry1 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2012
    Messages:
    236
    Location:
    NC
    Thanks. No rush. Appreciate the input. I've got a couple books too. :)
     
  14. wgaynor

    wgaynor Member

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2009
    Messages:
    903
    Location:
    Western Kentucky
    160 grain #2 alloy 3.050" OAL
    IMR 4198
    Starting Load: 27.0 grains @ 1940 fps with 19,600 pressure
    Max Load:37 grains @2421fps with 36,000 pressure
    No loads with 2400 listed under this one

    170 grains #2 alloy 3.013" OAL
    IMR 4198
    Starting Load: 25 grains @1729 fps
    Max Load 38.5 grains @2501 fps

    2400
    Starting Load of 18.5 grains@ 1635 fps
    Max Load of 29.5 grains @2296 fps

    Some friendly advice here... If you are using a plain base bullet (no gascheck), you'll want to keep your velocities below 1500 fps for the best success of having no leading and good accuracy. If your velocity is above that, the bullet construction is not strong enough to keep it from just skidding down the barrel instead of having a spin put upon it.

    Another school of thought is that the increased pressure that is associated with those velocities above 1500fps will deform the base of the bullet too much and cause gas to pass along the side of the side of the bullet. This can also cause leading.

    Rule of thumb... plain base should be kept below 1500fps

    I also highly recommend the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook. While it is not the complete source for cast bullet loads, it is more than enough to get you started with techniques, info, and load data.
     
  15. GLOOB

    GLOOB Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2007
    Messages:
    5,943
    I'm evaluating Unique with 130 gr cast WW's in 7mm-08. No leading, at all, so far. But accuracy has been pretty sucky. Not sure if it's the velocity or the lack of gas check. I've tried from 4 gr - 12.5 gr. The min suggested on Castpic for a 168gr bullet is 13 gr, or so, so maybe I just need to bump it up a bit. But then I'd probably start using a gas check, and I already have a good load for that; 24.0 gr H335 groups nice and tight.

    But I hear ya. Even though I have way more H335 on hand than Unique, I'm tempted to continue playing with Unique. Even with a gas check, 14-16 gr of Unique is a lot cheaper than 24 gr H335. :)
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2012
  16. wgaynor

    wgaynor Member

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2009
    Messages:
    903
    Location:
    Western Kentucky
    I don't see any load data here for the 7mm-08 remmington. I'll have to look in the other books. Do you know the velocity that you're pushing the bulelt?
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2012
  17. GLOOB

    GLOOB Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2007
    Messages:
    5,943
    http://www.castpics.net/project2/CastDatalist.php?start=6181

    This was the hardest data I was working off of, and it doesn't list my bullet weight or my powder. I don't have a chrono. With my H335 load, I'd guess 1800-1900 fps, mebbe? That seems to be the sweet spot, looking at these figures. When I bumped the charge up to 25.5 gr, I couldn't even keep them on a 10"x10" box at 40 yards. (And curiously, there was no leading at all, even though I shot up all 40 of these duds). At 24 gr, I was pegging golf balls out to 40 yards. I only put up one paper target at roughly 35 yards, to verify POA. I was shooting from a chair, no bench. First two shots were touching, a half inch below the bullseye. Third shot was right on the upper center of the bullseye, but I thought it was a flyer, so I took a fourth shot; it cloverleafed with the first two.

    With Unique, they only list a load for a 168 gr bullet, 13-15 grains. (NOT 145 gr boolit! Sorry, bad memory/info on my previous post. Edited). That might give you a clue for your rifle. At 12.5 grs, I was probably well short for a 130gr boolit. But like wgaynor recommends, I was trying to keep my velocity low, using no checks. At 4 gr, I can't even start to guess velocity. I was just trying to see if I could shoot without ears on, but I chickened out and never found out. I still remember that one time when I thought to myself, "how loud can a 22 pistol possibly be without ears..."

    Check out the 7x61 Unique load on that page. 2016fps! It looks like Unique can be used for full velocity cast loads in the right chamberings.
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2012
  18. trixter

    trixter Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2011
    Messages:
    86
    Location:
    Where E. Pine St. crosses I-5, OREGON
    I have the 155gr version of that same boolit, and I have been using 12 gr of Unique. So far so good.
     
  19. wgaynor

    wgaynor Member

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2009
    Messages:
    903
    Location:
    Western Kentucky
    Unique is a unique powder isn't it :neener: !
     
  20. Hungry1

    Hungry1 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2012
    Messages:
    236
    Location:
    NC
    It sure is! I'm new to reloading and have used it exclusively for .45 acp, 9mm, 38/357 and .30-.30.

    I got my .311" 30 cal bullets in today, they worked great in the Marlin .30-.30. Had to crank up the elevation and still don't have enough though. Needed to use some "Kentucky Elevation" by aiming at the orange sticky :)

    50 yards sitting at a picnic table, iron sights, hasty sling.

    001-13.jpg
     
  21. wgaynor

    wgaynor Member

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2009
    Messages:
    903
    Location:
    Western Kentucky
    Looks good. What kind of sights are you using? Peeps or irons? How much Unique did you use? I currently have an 8lb jug of military surplus powder similar to unique that I use. Will probably take me a long long time to use it up. Great for reduced loads, plain based cast loads, and pistol loads.
     
  22. GLOOB

    GLOOB Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2007
    Messages:
    5,943
    Might be of interest you y'all. I was cleaning up and found a Lyman guide for 270 and 7mm calibers. At a quick glance, it looks like they list a Unique loading for cast bullets in all of the cartridges. It's a little booklet the previous owner gave me when I bought the rifle. I dunno, but it looks like a free guide that might have come with some Lyman dies/molds or something.

    Now that I mention it, I wonder if Alliant's free guide doesn't also have this kind of load info. Sadly, I just put in an order at PW and I forgot to add the free guides to my cart, like I've been meaning to. They cost $0.01 cent each, provided by the powder manufacturers. I was thinking it would probably be just the same stuff they post online, but who knows?
     
  23. Hungry1

    Hungry1 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2012
    Messages:
    236
    Location:
    NC
    Thanks
    I've got a set of Skinner Guide Sights on it. http://www.skinnersights.com/1895_sight_4.html

    That load was:
    8 gr Unique
    Hunter Supply 165gr RNFP
    CCI 200 Primer
    COAL 2.50
    Mixed brass trimmed to 2.030

    I'm expecting my 30-06 dies to come in this week. I'll give both the .309s and .311s a try in my 03 Springfield and see which is more accurate.
     
  24. Hungry1

    Hungry1 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2012
    Messages:
    236
    Location:
    NC
    I just got that Alliant guide with my last PV order. The cast boolit loads are limited to cowboy action pistol. :)
     
  25. wgaynor

    wgaynor Member

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2009
    Messages:
    903
    Location:
    Western Kentucky
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2012
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page