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30-30 / Unique / Large Pistol Primers

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by Dudemeister, Jul 29, 2012.

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  1. popper

    popper Member

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    Dudemeister - Roll crimp? not needed, just use a light taper crimp, lightly use the roll crimp die. No just use 1 in the tube and 1 chambered. I tried 170 LFN with 71/2 unique and got lousy accuracy, I guess I need to do a ladder. Got some 2400 to try now. Anyone have a 170ish LFN no GC load with 2400? Flare with needle nose pliers or get a real flaring die - Lee universal, RCBS cowboy or lyman M die.
     
  2. Dudemeister

    Dudemeister Member

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    I used a Lee Universal Expanding die. It works really well and it's fast.

    As for the roll crimp, I should have just said "crimp"s I'm not exactly sure what type of crimp the standard seating die makes. It looks slightly rounded, so I called it a roll crimp, but it could very well be tapered.

    I did have the same thought, load only 2 at the time, that way there aren't any rounds one behind the other when I shoot them. I also considered loading a bunch of dummies with a live primer and bullet, but no powder then fire a few manually fed live rounds and see if anything goes "little bang" in the tube.
     
  3. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator

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    Nothing wrong with roll crimping .30-30 into a cannelure on a jacketed bullet or a crimp groove on a lead bullet. The cases will need to be trimmed for good uniformity of the crimps.

    [​IMG]
     
  4. Dudemeister

    Dudemeister Member

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    Walkalong, did you ever have any issues shooting those round nose bullets out of your rifle? Are you using them in a tube fed rifle?

    I mean, the round nose profile on those bullets looks very similar to the profile on the lead bullets I have, and there appears to be some concern here over them detonating the primer in the bullet in front.
     
  5. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator

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  6. Fishslayer

    Fishslayer Member

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    That big groove is for lube. Since the bullet is moly coated it isn't used. In a bare lead boolit that groove would be packed with a greasy looking lube.
     
  7. Dudemeister

    Dudemeister Member

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    Ready for an experiment

    Well, I'm about to try a new experiment.

    As many of you who have been following this thread have pointed out, the lead bullets I used have a somewhat pointy nose which may ignite the primer of the adjacent bullet.

    So today I loaded 6 "dummy" rounds with primer and bullet only, no powder. The idea is to load the tube with these dummies, then manually feed and fire a few real rounds to see if the concussion of the shot would trigger a chain reaction in the dummy rounds.

    I plan on taking the rifle to the range this weekend to try my experiment. But before I do, I have a couple of concerns:

    1. What would be the worst that could happen if the dummy rounds go off? Could they damage the rifle?
    2. If by some fluke I end up chambering and firing one of the dummies, would the bullet clear the barrel, or would it end up lodged in there?
    3. If I do end up with a lodged bullet, what is the easiest way to get it out? can it be pushed out (forward or back)?
     
  8. 35 Whelen

    35 Whelen Member

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    1. Nothing. I recently inadvertently left the powder out of some of my 7.5x55 rounds. They too were loaded with lead bullets. Chambered one, pulled the trigger, "Click". Same results for 8 more rounds and that's what will happen if you inadvertently chamber and fire one of your dummy rounds. As long as the neck is on the 30-30 cartridge, it'll have a death grip on the bullet that a primer alone won't overcome.
    2. See answer #1.
    3. See answer #1. If by some fluke the bullet does manage to leave the case, it won't go far enough into the rifling to amount to anything and will be able to be easily tapped out with a cleaning rod.

    The bullet you plan on using won't set off a primer in the magazine for a couple of reasons. First, if this occured, it would be due to recoil. You're using a really light load and as a result, recoil will be non-existent. Second, as another wise poster already mentioned, the little bullet you plan on using is no more "pointy" than many factory bullets. So, relax.

    As my wise mother used to say, "Don't borrow trouble".

    35W
     
  9. popper

    popper Member

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    Primer by itself in a large rifle case probably won't push the bullet out of the case. Pistol case is different, it will probably go 1/2-1". You might not want to load a tube mag full so if it does leave the case the spring will have some give..
     
  10. Jayhawk Dan

    Jayhawk Dan Member

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    Read a reloading manual!!!!!

    DON'T do any reloading, Dudemeister, until you've obtained and read a reloading manual for reloading the .30 WCF (.30-30) cartridge!! :uhoh: This is a fundamental step in reloading safely!

    Jayhawk Dan
     
  11. Dudemeister

    Dudemeister Member

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    Oops... A little late....
     
  12. Dudemeister

    Dudemeister Member

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    Today I took my first loads to the range.

    I took both the 115gr lead, and the 170gr. jacketed along with 20 factory loads (Remington 150gr. Core-Lokt).

    I first shot 5 factory rounds to zero the rifle in. Since it's been a couple of months since I shot the rifle, I had forgotten how much kick it has. I know that there are those here who'll tell you that 30-30 rounds are light, but that's now what my shoulder was telling me.

    Then I shot my first rounds of the 115gr. lead. WHAT A DIFFERENCE IN RECOIL !!. Not quite a .22, but very light, a pleasure to shoot. :D:D

    But how well did they do? My first few shots were really low, about 10" below the bullseye, so I raised the rear sight 2 notches up the ramp, which brought me just about 1" below dead center. Windage wise, I was more or less on.

    My groups were not the best, I was shooting seated, and resting my left arm on the table, but I still managed to group about 4-5". Not all that great, but considering I'm shooting without any optics, and that the front sight dot is as big as the bullseye at that range, not bad either.

    I next tried the 170gr. not quite, but nearly as soft as the others in recoil, but they shot a lot lower than the leads, and quite a bit to the left. I'm not sure why they dropped so much, I mean at least 6" low and 3" to the left.

    I thought that maybe I had done something or that I somehow lost the zero on the sights, but no, I reloaded a few 115gr. leads and they were back up where they should have been.

    So after shooting only 15 rounds of the 170gr. and not liking that load, I concentrated on shooting the 115gr. At the end, the 6" bullseye was pretty much shredded, a very satisfactory outing.

    All in all, I think that if I want to shoot for accuracy, I'll have to buy a scope and mount for this rifle. I'm sure I can shrink the groups down to 2" or less. As for the load, I think that my 115gr. bullet with 9gr. of Trail Boss is my new favorite load.

    Note: I also found out that my freeloaded rounds were not properly sized. They would not seat fully and because of it, I had to literally crunch the lever down on each one just so I can overcome the trigger/lever safety on the rifle.

    When I got home I started to look at the spent rounds and realized that they were not necked all the way, so the case shoulder was actually too high, preventing the round from seating in the chamber all the way. After inspecting my sizing die I found that I hadn't screwed it in as far down as possible, and there was a gap of at least 0.05" at the top travel of the ram. I've now adjusted the die so there's barely any visible daylight at the top of the stroke between the bottom of the die and the top of the holder. I sized and dropped some shells in the rifle and they chamber perfectly now.

    Is there a way to resize the neck & shoulder without taking the bullets apart ( I still have about 100 rounds I had already done).
     
  13. zxcvbob

    zxcvbob Member

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    You might try about 10 grains of Red Dot or 12 grains of Unique with 150 to 170 grain bullets (cast bullets will work better because there's less bore friction) The large pistol primers will be fine *if* you seat them all the way and if your firing pin is long enough to set them off.

    BTW, they don't look like it but these are max loads, or at least close to it.
     
  14. Sport45

    Sport45 Member

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    The Redding Body die will do this, but it's expensive enough I wouldn't buy one for 100 rounds.

    Redding 30-30 Body Die at MidwayUSA

    Keep in mind the 115gr bullet is a "plinking" load only and don't try to chase good accuracy with it. I imagine the bullet is way too short for your rifling to properly stabilize.
     
  15. Dudemeister

    Dudemeister Member

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    "You might try about 10 grains of Red Dot or 12 grains of Unique with 150 to 170 grain bullets"

    Yeah, I'm not looking for max loads at all. I really like my reduced loads with Trail Boss and wimpy 115gr. lead

    Also, 12gr of Unique? Isn't that a bit heavy? I thought that about 10.5gr was the max for a 170gr. bullet and Unique
     
  16. ljnowell

    ljnowell Member

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    I noticed when browsing the Missouri Bullet website they casted for 30/30 in 18bhn. I really thought that wouldnt be enough, but I have never loaded cast in a rifle. I guess when I pick up a 30/30 this year I will try some of thier cast bullets.
     
  17. zxcvbob

    zxcvbob Member

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    Yes it is heavy. 10 would be a good starting point and 11 a reasonable maximum. But according to Quickload you can go to 12 (and a little beyond) safely and that's where I got the number. I thought it was OK since I rounded it down. :eek:

    I don't load .30-30, but I do sometimes shoot max loads of Red Dot in .30-06 -- it's an accurate and enjoyable (and cheap) load.
     
  18. Dudemeister

    Dudemeister Member

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    To me, max loads are not enjoyable. Especially when I shoot them out of guns that have not comfort amenities like recoil pads.

    I guess I'm getting old and fragile, cause the few factory shots I ran through the rifle today left an impression on my shoulder. This probably explains why I'm always on a quest for a light, reduced load.
     
  19. popper

    popper Member

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    No, you will have to pull the bullets. You should resize, save the primers, just resize SLOW. Your factory rounds should give you close to proper headspace measurements. Lube the case and neck, mark the shoulder with a sharpie, Keep slightly sizoing the case till it marks the shoulder, then a tad more. I use 7 1/2 gr unique for 110 gr and 170 gr CBs, about the same recoil. Lighter Cbs will shoot faster (higher POI).
     
  20. zxcvbob

    zxcvbob Member

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    A maximum pressure load of shotgun powder in a rifle cartridge is still a low recoil load.
     
  21. Pete D.

    Pete D. Member

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    Loads

    Despite what Quickload spits out, those two loads - 10 grains of Red Dot and 12 grains of Unique are both over maximum in the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook.
    Lyman lists 9.0 grs of RD and 11 grs of Unique as max with a 150 grain cast bullet. For a 170 slightly less at 8.5grs RD and 10.6 Unique.
    Just adding info.
    Pete
     
  22. Critter getter

    Critter getter Member

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    Been loading Unique in 30-30 cast load for 20 years now. Works great.:eek: I would really stay away from using the pistol primers in the rifle cartridges. The Lyman manual uses Rifle primers in Rifle cartridges....and they cost the same anyway.
     
  23. Hungry1

    Hungry1 Member

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    Throwing my .02 in,

    For 30-30 cast loads, I've excellent results with 18 gr of IMR4198 and a G/C 170 FP sized to .311 out of my Remlin Micro Groove.

    Large Rifle Primer. :)
     
  24. DeadFlies

    DeadFlies Member

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    30-30, cast lead, and Trailboss go together like bread, peanut butter and jelly. So simple yet so delicious.

    Unique works well too but the possibility of double or overcharging is a worry I don't need.
     
  25. jcwit

    jcwit Member

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    I concur.

    I've developed a mild cast bullet plinking load. Using a Lee cast bullet #90362 at 113 grs. and 10 1/5 grains of Trail Boss. Excellent accuracy for a lever carbine and a pleasure to shoot all afternoon.
     
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