30-30 vs 308MX FTX Bullets - Whoops

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by JMDeeDeeDee, Jun 29, 2014.

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  1. JMDeeDeeDee

    JMDeeDeeDee Member

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    So... I just started reloading, got everything set up today, did my first batch of 30-30. Or tried to, rather. Got my cases all trimmed, primed, and powdered. Started putting in the bullets and realized the COL was way off when I seated in the crimp groove. Some of the higher grain rounds (that were below the maximum safe load, I wasn't overfilling) wouldn't even allow me to seat the bullet low enough to hit COL if I were to ignore the crimp groove, due to the bullet bottoming out in the powder.

    So, I started looking around for info why, and I found out that there are actually two .308 FTX rounds. One of which is specifically for 30-30 and the other for .308 Marlin Express. Want to take a guess which I got? :(

    So, I come asking two questions, mainly:

    For starters, I have no bullet puller yet, waiting on one to come in. That means I have to manually pull them somehow, and I will have to resize the necks. Does anyone know if I can take out the depriming pin on the neck resizing die from a Lee Deluxe kit and have it still work? Or would I have to deprime them all and do it with the depriming rod still in?

    Secondly... anyone here interested in trading a box of 30-30 FTX (or any 30-30 of comparable quality) for .308 FTX?

    I won't lie, I am pretty disheartened. I was planning on going out and testing loads tomorrow, and instead I get to wait another week for more rounds to come in, since NO one in my area seems to sell reloading supplies off the shelf. :(
     
  2. ArchAngelCD

    ArchAngelCD Member

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    I'm sorry I have no use for the .308 Marlin Express bullets.

    I'm thinking out loud here, I'm wondering if you can use those bullets in .308 win or 30-06 ammo? Do you own a .308 Win or 30-06 rifle? If you do you can try using those bullets there even though they aren't specifically meant for the 30-06 or .308. (maybe?)
     
  3. FROGO207

    FROGO207 Member

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    We all had to learn somewhere about the ins and outs of reloading so mistakes will be made. If this is the only problem you encounter, great! I do not need the bullets either. And I feel your pain on having to wait. Still you figured this out without having any major problems or mishaps.

    If you do not want to save the loaded bullets or worry about damaging them simply removing the die, pushing the round up into the hole and using pliers to grip the bullet and then lowering the ram will remove them. You can resize the necks only but have to keep the decapping pin in the die to reopen the case mouths to the correct size. Just lift it enough that it does not decap the primer. To high and it will bind the neck and ruin the brass. It might take some adjustments but will work.

    If you do end up removing the primers they can be reused again just push slowly and steady to remove them and they will not go off.
     
  4. JMDeeDeeDee

    JMDeeDeeDee Member

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    Thanks for the advice, I love these forums :)

    I managed to get all the bullets out with a lot of time and a pair of pliers, but I like the idea of using the press to pull them, would have saved me some time haha. It looks like they opened back up to around where they were when I fired them, so I will try resizing later today.

    As for your question ArchAngel, I was thinking about it while pulling them last night, I do not have a .308 or a 30-06 (unfortunately) however, I might be able to use them in my Mosin Nagants. If not, I have a buddy that has a .308.

    I don't see why it wouldn't work in the Mosin Nagants though. I know for ideal accuracy, I need to get around to slugging the barrel, and using ammo that is exact for what I need, however I have seen a lot about reloading 7.62x54R with .308 diameter rounds, with good results.

    My surplus 147 gr bullets measure out between .310 and .311 over a few rounds. The length is a little different, with the surplus being 1.267 and the MX FTX bullets being 1.165. Also, the crimp groove is in a different location, but if I can find some lower end load data to work off the pressures should be ok, especially considering I am firing them out of the proverbial tank that is a Nagant. Instead of screwing around with a Berdan to Boxer conversion, I would just remove the bullet on the live rounds, redo the powder charge and crimp in the new bullet, correct?
     
  5. popper

    popper Member

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    Yup, 2 of them. They will work, use an FCD, no problem. I've used the 30/30 in ME without problem, never done the other way but shouldn't be a problem. I think the ME version has a thicker jacket & different cannular position. You can pull the stem & resize the case but then need an expander or pull the pin from the stem & size slowly. You'll need to clean the lube off the case. You can also SLOWLY size with the stem & punch the primer - usually they are still good. I prefer the cam puller to impact type - it's a loaded round!
     
  6. JMDeeDeeDee

    JMDeeDeeDee Member

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    I was trying to make the ME work in the 30-30, but unfortunately I don't see it working.

    My recommended load range was between 27.8 and 30.9 grains. Once into my cases above 29 grains, the bullet was actually compressing into the powder so much that I couldn't get most of them above that grain even within the COL range needed. I would have to take powder out.

    I managed to find the 30-30 version in stock on Cabela's website, so I ordered 200 last night. Just gotta wait till later this week when it shows up. For now, I am really leaning towards trying those .308ME FTX tips in my Mosin. I will have to get a die set for it, and figure out if I need a different powder too.

    Hell, if I could get away with just a straight up tip swap, and keep the surplus powder charge, that would be great, but that is a 13 grain weight difference on the bullets, not sure if that would create an issue.
     
  7. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

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    You can 'Mexican Match' load them by pulling the Mosin bullets and reseating better bullets of equal or less bullet weight.

    FYI: Mexican Match is not a derogatory term.
    Mexican Match ammo evolved many years ago by Mexican Silhouette Match shooters pulling military bullets and reseating more accurate commercial Match bullets over the same powder charge.

    But:
    You Loading heavier bullets of a different shape over the same powder charge Would Not be prudent.


    BTW: The Mosin is not a 'Tank' compared to any other modern rifle bolt-action rifle design.

    It is a 123 year old design, built out of 75-100 year old steel.
    They don't often blow up because the 7.65x54R is a relatively low pressure round compared to many more modern calibers.

    They are apparently built like a tank, because they had to be back then to be overly cautious with steel quality & unscientific heat treatment of the time.

    They can blow up though, given enough incentive with over-pressure loads.

    rc
     
  8. JMDeeDeeDee

    JMDeeDeeDee Member

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    Makes sense. Ill hold off on the Mexican Matching until I can find some powder that I actually have load data on the 7.62x54R for, and get the dies for it. Thanks :D
     
  9. mavracer

    mavracer Member

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    While they're going to be too heavily constructed to hunt with, there's no reason you can't shoot the MX bullets from a 30-30 at paper to practice.
     
  10. popper

    popper Member

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    My FTX for 30/30 & ME are dimensionally identical except for the position of the cannular. Both 160 gr. I suggest you check your charge. You didn't say what powder you are using.
    The FTX, like all FMJs, is not an expanding bullet design. SIL shot a piggie with the ME, broke the spine but backstrap was fine. He forgot to aim low at 30 yds. It was factory ammo, he refuses to hunt with reloads or cast. Silly guy but may change after he saw the 9mm he shot into a rock pile and my cast 40 into the same pile. Mine held together, his shattered.
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2014
  11. JMDeeDeeDee

    JMDeeDeeDee Member

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    Hmm... maybe the site I used for reloading data was flawed then? I used the Lee Safety Powder Scale to measure every charge, since this is my first time at reloading. Slow, but wanted to be 100% sure until I get more comfortable with it.

    I got my data from this link, provided by a THR member in another thread.

    http://www.ramshot.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/WP_LoadSpec_7-2-13.pdf

    I am using AA2495 powder.
     
  12. NCsmitty

    NCsmitty Member

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    That's not correct, the FTX bullets are essentially expanding hollow points with a polymer tip that fills the hollow point for an aerodynamic advantage and a cushion in the tubular magazines.
    The 308 MX FTX bullet likely has a heavier jacket than the 30-30 FTX because of the higher velocities, but I don't know that for a fact. I've only loaded the 30-30 FTX myself.
    Live n learn.


    NCsmitty
     
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