.30-30 vs 7.62x39?

[g_gunter]

Main reason so many deer are "lost" with the .30/30! Also, many hunters can't judge between 125yds and 225yds. Also, most .30/30's are zero'd at 100yds, instead of 150yds as they sould be (2.5" high at 100yds; 4" low at 200yds for 220yd "point-blank" range for deer- a 150yd zero).

I agree. My scoped Marlin 336 30-30 took two bucks in the past year at 150 yds. and 187 yds. easily. Using the Winchester 150 gr. bullet travelling at 2390 fps and, each time, I got complete penetration (no recovered bullets) and the deer died within 30 yds. of being hit. I don't see how, from a penetration perspective, how any 7.62x39 bullet can outperform a 30-30 bullet? Especially when shooting out to 200 yards.

Just my thoughts.

g_gunter

 

[Bang]

For the best accuracy and terminal performance in a 7.62x39 round go with:

-Lapua 125 gr JSP
-Winchester Super-X 123 gr Power-Point

They will get the job done.

Bang

 

[bud45]

Pondering...

Malice, I'd bought so much stuff over the years- isn't Wolf the ammo that had red sealant at the primer and around the neck of the cartridge/bullet crimp? If so, that's what I have.

g_gunter, the woods are so thick here, our shooting is in mere yards or feet; I personally wouldn't want to risk a shot at 200 yards, even with the scope on the rifle. I'm no longer as steady or have the eyes I had in my youth. To be sure, I've had several opportunities at deer within 20 yards from the tree stand, but they were immature deer. The last one was sniffing at the rope I use to pull the rifle up (I had let it back down).

Cayoot- I had found something to that effect and checked the depth of the hollow point- it wasn't very substantial at all! Needless to say, I have put those away for just plinking....

rbernie, I intend on just using factory loads- I don't need a *kaboom!* 30 or 40 feet up a tree!

bang- I'll be looking for these; another fellow I went scouting for hogs with this week mentioned I should look for something like these. If I can't find them locally, and I haven't seen them in any of my catalogs, where can I obtain them?

I know there are lots of people who use SKS rifles for hunting; I'm glad y'all are sharing info with me on what's good & what's not. I was just curious about the similarities & differences on these two bullets. I know a 154-gr bullet will have more drop than a 122- or 123-gr version, but at something at 50 yards and under, is there much difference? The last deer I harvested was at 60 yards, head shot (had the rifle rested on the shoot house's window edge) and I hit where I aimed. For that shot, I was using the soft points, which I assume was the Wolf bullet, from what I was asking malice above. Deer season is over here in Alabama 1/31, so I'll be hunting hogs next and then turkey! Bud

 

[rexelbion]

Your next rifle should be a 30-06 or 7mm rather than a 30-30. Both rounds are more versatile and have greater accuracy. Not to take anything away from a 30-30, but you already own a sks, the other calibers would just broaden your hunting spectrum.

 

[GooseGestapo]

G-Gunter:

Unless you were using the Winchester "Power-Plus", I doubt very seriously you were getting 2,390fps from your .30-30.

All the factory ammo I've chrono'd through the years have run around 2,250-2,275fps from 20"bbls. Around 2,325-2,350fps from 24" bbls.

My personal .30/30 load is 34.0 to 35.0gr of RL-15 under a 150gr bullet. It gets 2,390-2,450fps from a 20"bbl and is notably "stouter" than any of the factory loads. 33.0gr and a 170gr gets 2,220fps from a 20"bbl.

Only real difference though, is that the faster they go, the less they penetrate at a given range.

As you noted though, there is nothing wrong with a .30/30 at 175yds to 225yds with a well placed shot. Only it starts getting a bit harder past 200yds to precisely place the shots due to misjudged ranges. Actually, for most hunters, especially those with computers and .30/30's with scopes; the best investment would be in an inexpensive laser range finder. If you have time to "lase" the range, you can look at your stock where you have (should have) taped a piece of paper listing rise and drop with various ranges to 300yds.

I suggest using one of the available "on-line" ballistic computers, such as Norma's or the JBL sites. Use a b.c. of 0.200 for 150gr Rn/HP's with factory ammo, and a m.v. of 2,275fps. Use 0.220 for 170gr with m.v. of 2,150fps for the 170grs. Any errors will be insignificant due to radius of error (accuracy) of average rifles. 2" at 200yds is insignificant due to ~3-5" accuracy, and ability of most of us to hold a rifle still enough to shoot that well from a field position.

But as you noted, the "Proof" is in the venison stew you've enjoyed!

 

[seeker_two]

Out of curiosity...

Has anyone here tried the old milsurp ammo trick of cutting the tips back on the HP or FMJ ammo (w/ a hacksaw) to provide a larger hole or soft point for expansion? I've heard of a few who used to do it with old HP match ammo (usu. in .308, .303. or 8mm) or FMJ ammo to create hunting bullets on the cheap. And I've heard about as many success stories as failure stories from doing so...

I've never done so myself & have never advocated such. I'm just asking out of scholarly curiosity...

 

[cracked butt]

Has anyone here tried the old milsurp ammo trick of cutting the tips back on the HP or FMJ ammo (w/ a hacksaw) to provide a larger hole or soft point for expansion? I've heard of a few who used to do it with old HP match ammo (usu. in .308, .303. or 8mm) or FMJ ammo to create hunting bullets on the cheap.

I've never tried it, Bu't I've heard that doing this leaves the lead core exposed art both ends that can allow it to squirt out of the jacket in the bore causing a bore obstruction.


I have several friends who use sks's with softpoint ammo for deer hunting and they don't seem to have any problems harvesting deer with them. They keep the shots short. I've shot a lot of 30-30 before and just yesterday shot a sks for the first time, and just from the subjective feel of things, the 30-30 feels like you are shooting a much more substantial round than the 7.62x39.

 

[Preacherman]

Seeker, the problem with doing that is that in milsurp ammo, the jackets are usually not bonded to the cores. A frequent consequence of cutting back the jacket is that when the bullet is fired, the lead core goes merrily up the barrel and out into the world, leaving a "ring" of jacket material in the barrel - nicely placed to intercept the next round fired. The consequences I leave to your imagination...

 

[seeker_two]

Glad I only had a "scholarly" interest in the subject. Thanks for the enlightenment...

 

[Smith357]

For hunting purposes my belief is the .30-30 is the better choice for one main reason. Availability of good hunting rounds at any back woods bait shop. You can get good factory loads for the .30-30 anywhere ammo is sold. For the 7.62 you need find a better equiped retailer or load your own.

 

[g_gunter]

Factory Ballistics of 30-30...

GooseGestapo wrote:

Unless you were using the Winchester "Power-Plus", I doubt very seriously you were getting 2,390fps from your .30-30.

All the factory ammo I've chrono'd through the years have run around 2,250-2,275fps from 20"bbls. Around 2,325-2,350fps from 24" bbls.

I'm relying on Winchester's factory numbers for the "Power-Point" out of a 20 inch barrel. I set my rifle according to their ballistics tables and have no reason to doubt their accuracy. Having said that, I do not have my own chrono so I cannot argue whether or not their round is doing 2390 fps out of my rifle.

As you noted though, there is nothing wrong with a .30/30 at 175yds to 225yds with a well placed shot. Only it starts getting a bit harder past 200yds to precisely place the shots due to misjudged ranges. Actually, for most hunters, especially those with computers and .30/30's with scopes; the best investment would be in an inexpensive laser range finder. If you have time to "lase" the range, you can look at your stock where you have (should have) taped a piece of paper listing rise and drop with various ranges to 300yds.

Placing shots "well" is the key for any cartridge the further out you get. I just make sure I place my shots well. The best way to ensure *that* is to practice diligently using the load you are going to hunt with, as well as, practice diligently with range estimation *and* knowing the area you are hunting.

If you have time to "lase" the range, you can look at your stock where you have (should have) taped a piece of paper listing rise and drop with various ranges to 300yds.

I make it a point to know the rise and drop of the bullet I hunt with intimately. That's part of the reason why I have the confidence I have in my 30-30 out past 200 yards. If I have to look at the stock of my rifle for the info I may miss my opportunity.

I suggest using one of the available "on-line" ballistic computers, such as Norma's or the JBL sites. Use a b.c. of 0.200 for 150gr Rn/HP's with factory ammo, and a m.v. of 2,275fps. Use 0.220 for 170gr with m.v. of 2,150fps for the 170grs. Any errors will be insignificant due to radius of error (accuracy) of average rifles. 2" at 200yds is insignificant due to ~3-5" accuracy, and ability of most of us to hold a rifle still enough to shoot that well from a field position.

I prefer to the use b.c. provided by the factory (.218 for the Winchester 150 gr. bullet) and their velocity numbers. I've been able to closely duplicate the advertised characteristics of that particular round and see no reason to change. However, should I begin loading my own I will have to re-evaluate that practice.

As far as accuracy, my best group with the Winchester Power-Point 150 gr. cartridge from my rifle is 1.5" at 150 yds. Under field conditions I feel pretty confident with it. Practice, practice, practice...

But as you noted, the "Proof" is in the venison stew you've enjoyed!

Mmmmm....mmmmm....good.

All the best,

g_gunter

 

[unreal45]

rbernie
What method is used to attach that sight to the reciever?
Does that sight hold its zero?

 

[RangerHAAF]

I have used Russian surplus hollowpoints to kill three deer and on each occasion the deer didn't go further than 30 yards before falling. Unfortunately, my aim hasn't been accurate enough to drop them in their tracks, yet.

They mushroom nicely upon impact, have a negligible recoil that will give you a quick follow up shot.

They work for me.