30 Carbine versus 300 Blackout.

[Balrog]

300 Blackout bullets are heavier, velocities are about the same?
How much real world difference is there though?

 

[mavracer]

The big difference is going to come from the ballistic coefficient advantage of the blackout. A blackout is going to shoot flatter making hits in the 200-300 yard range easier.

 

[TIMC]

300 Blackout bullets are heavier, velocities are about the same?

Not necessarily, I'm running 110 grain bullets out of my 16" AR in .300 Blackout at 2465 according to my chrony; best you are going to be able to muster out of .30 carbine is about 2460 in 30 carbine but you will have to drop down into the 85 grain bullets.

I own both and the little .30 carbine is nice but nothing close to the .300 Blackout.

 

[Balrog]

I own both and the little .30 carbine is nice but nothing close to the .300 Blackout.

I can buy that the 300 Blackout shoots flatter, but what else is the 400 fps giving you?

 

[dprice3844444]

better bullet design

 

[TIMC]

I can buy that the 300 Blackout shoots flatter, but what else is the 400 fps giving you?

Better bullet design and a big gain in kinetic energy.

 

[cat_IT_guy]

For killing paper inside 100 yards, likely not enough difference to be worth discussing. If you will be hunting, or trying to hit further, .300 seems like it would be a no-brainer due to heavier, purpose built bullets with a better BC.

 

[Elkins45]

The real difference is the platform, not the cartridge, but the ability to load longer bullets is a real ballistic advantage as well.

 

[Sunray]

2460 fps in .30 Carbine is way over loaded if it's a 110. Anyway, think physics. Big thing at a given velocity will have more potential energy than a smaller thing at the same speed. Big things tend to go farther than small things at the same speed too.

 

[Tommygunn]

I believe TimC was saying to get 2460FPS out of the carbine you went to 85 grain bullets, not 110 grain bullets.

 

[cfullgraf]

300 Blackout bullets are heavier, velocities are about the same?
How much real world difference is there though?

There is not alot of difference but 300 BLK is a bit better.

With 300 BLK you get higher velocities with the same weight bullets or the same velocity with heavier bullets.

But, if your looking for this type of performance, I feel the 300 BLK would be a better choice. Post WWII commercial 30 Carbines do not have the best reputation for reliability and I would not use a USGI carbine for rough service. USGI carbines are too nice and have some nice history with them.

For my hobby farm, about 100 yards is the longest shot and the 300 BLK is ideal. I can hit small critters out to 50 yards or so and larger critters out to 100 yards with the same sight setting. Beyond that, the rainbow trajectory minimizes down range risks.

 

[strambo]

I agree the platform is the primary consideration since the 30 carbine basically only comes in the M1 carbine. The 300 BLK has way more versatility in bullet weights, performance and bullet types for just about any purpose.

I love my M1C though, and with 110g soft points, an Ultimak rail, micro dot and small light, it would make for a pretty formidable HD weapon. Since the Ultimak rail comes right off, no permanent modifications needed so it can always be put back into USGI configuration again.

 

[rodinal220]

Big difference between the two.

The Carbine M-1 round fires a 110gr round nose bullet at approximately 1950fps.The M-1 Carbine wasn't really designed to handle pointy spitzer type bullets. Its a round best suited for its original home,the WWII Carbine.Things like Ruger Blackhawks,AMT pistols,weird Izzy carbines are just curiosities.



The 300 AAC Blackout,Whisper,Fireball was designed to fire both super and subsonic. It can use bullets from 115-240 grains,the lighter ones for supersonic use and the 220/240s for subsonic use. Ballistically it can match and exceed 7.62x39 Russian(M43),depending on barrel length(propellants).It can do 2100+fps 115gr spitzer in 8-9inch barrel.

It really shines in SBR AR/MSR with sub 10" barrels.Plus the compact length works well with suppressors.

Why this cartridge is gaining popularity is because folks are finding out it gives AK47 ballistics on a AR15/MSR the size of a HKMP5,and shines with suppressor use with subsonic ammo.

Its an old concept coming full circle again,the intermediate cartridge.

http://300aacblackout.com/

 

[TIMC]

I believe TimC was saying to get 2460FPS out of the carbine you went to 85 grain bullets, not 110 grain bullets.

Exactly! Thanks for reading the entire post!

 

[MCgunner]

Hmm, sounds like you'd be better off with a . 30-30. Just sayin'......

 

[TIMC]

Hmm, sounds like you'd be better off with a . 30-30. Just sayin'......

Not in my book; my 30-30 hasn't been out of the vault in about 2 years, I've been having a blast with the Blackout this hunting season but each to his own.

 

[Bezoar]

30 carbine, accurate. not the easiest to get brass for.

blackout. uses your ar. an excuse to buy something else for your ar lower once you accessorize the 223 upper it came with.
uses 223 brass.

alot of cartridges have come and gone, that did the nearly exact same thing with longer barrels.

 

[MCgunner]

Not in my book; my 30-30 hasn't been out of the vault in about 2 years, I've been having a blast with the Blackout this hunting season but each to his own.

Well, my .30-30 is a pistol, but I've been hunting with a black powder lately. I really like front stuffers, big 385 grain 50 caliber chunk of lead takes no prisoers. I just find it comical that everyone plays with these short little pop gun rounds because they fit in ARs and they call them hunting rounds because they shoot bigger bullets than .22. I mean, if you just HAVE to have a 20 round mag and a pistol grip on your rifle, they do make .308 ARs called AR10s. What's wrong with the .308....okay, 7.62x51 NATO for the tacticool? But, that's blasphemy for some reason. Seems it has to be direct impingement, no gas pistons or such. I really don't get it, but I'm old and not in to video games and ARs.

Now, I LOVE the .30 Carbine! I don't like the round so much as the rifle. The Lieutenant in the 60s TV show "Combat" carried one and, when I was a kid, I just thought that was the sexiest rifle in the world. I wanted a .22 caliber version, never got it, but have a new Chiappa M1-22 now that i'm in to. .22 is so much more useful than .30 carbine! .30 carbine is one of those rounds that's too little for anything big and too big for anything little. It made ultimate sense as a light weapon in WW2 for tankers, officers, logistics support, etc that didn't need to be totin' a big ol' Garand around, but needed something better than a 1911 with more range and easier to shoot. I'd still like to get one just to have it, but I wouldn't choose it over my hunting rifles for hunting, no way.

But, I'm sort of a WW2 history nut, too. Half my family and most of the men I knew as a kid were vets of that war. They were my heroes, still are, and I still read books about that war. BUT, I don't even own a carbine or a garand. Go figure. You know, the little Carbines are very handy things. There are companies out there that will rebarrel one to .357 magnum or 9x23 or something. I've often thought that'd make the thing a little more useful. I suppose that's similar to all the beowulfs and Grendels and blackouts and such for the AR, really. So, I guess if you just like the rifle because it's light and handy, I can semi understand. But, I'll keep my 7 mag and my .308 and my .257 Roberts for bigger game. Don't really like ARs to the point I'm willing to compromise on a chambering

 

[TIMC]

Nothing wrong with .308, t just wasn't what this thread was about. I have AR's in .223, 6.5 Grendel, .300 Blackout, .308 and .50 Beowulf. I also like WWII stuff and occasionally hunt with a Garand, 03A3, K-98 or my 91/30, all in sniper configurations and all very accurate.

 

[kBob]

About 30 years ago there were a few published loads for .30 carbine with 150 grain round nosed bullets like for lever action .30-30s. Velocities ran about 950 and they did cycle the guns. They shot a bit low at 100 yards as I recall and I seem to recall they had more noticeable recoil. I thought that they must be rough on the guns so only used them one day. Yes we thought about suppressor use with those loads, but no one wanted to give our manufacturer friend their carbine to suppress.

-kBob

 

[Steel Horse Rider]

Another post with no purpose other than attempting to make the OP feel better about himself. Not very High Road but that is what passes for HR of late.

 

[dubbleA]

One always needs to weigh things out for his or her needs. If you like the 30 Carbine and it does what you ask by all means go for it, like wise with the Blackout.

Just a quick glance over the 2.

30 Carbine designed for a light infantry rifle shooting light 30 cal bullets. The M1's are quality made weapons but sighting is a bi crude to todays standard

Available platforms.....M1/M2 carbine, AMT Hardballer handgun, maybe a T/C Contender, Marlin 62 probably some I don't know about

Factory ammo.....115 FMJ, maybe a soft point factory load out there somewhere?

You are limited to light weight bullets due to the magazine OAL and twist of the barrel.



300 Blackout

Designed around being able to operate in a AR-15 and shooting heavy for caliber bullets suppressed.

Ammo.....more and more factory ammo, from plinking FMJ's to 220/240gr subsonics and everything in between. Brass is plentiful


Rifles available in various AR uppers from 7 to 16 inches . A few bolt action rifles as well as the NEF handi single shot rifle.

Most barrels are going to be twisted 1:7 to 1:8 so that any bullet weight can be used at about any velocity without the fear of an un-stabilized bullet.




So there are a few more things to weigh over 400fps.
BTW 400fps is a huge difference when considering velocity, it usually the difference in what makes a magnum these days.

 

[Elkins45]

Another post with no purpose other than attempting to make the OP feel better about himself. Not very High Road but that is what passes for HR of late.

I really don't understand this post.

 

[bearfoot]

Another post with no purpose other than attempting to make the OP feel better about himself. Not very High Road but that is what passes for HR of late.

I would suggest that passing judgement on an post with an honest question would not be very "High Road" either.

 

[Balrog]

Another post with no purpose other than attempting to make the OP feel better about himself. Not very High Road but that is what passes for HR of late.

I dont understand what that means.
I was asking the difference between to 30 caliber cartridges and advantages of one over the other.
How does this make me feel better about myself?