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300 H&H

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by Catpop, Oct 31, 2018.

  1. Catpop

    Catpop Member

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    Are there any 300 H&H diehard fans out there?
    If so, do you have any favorite loads you would like to share? Favorite powder, bullet, bullet weight!
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2018
  2. Riomouse911

    Riomouse911 Member

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    I really want one. Dad gave me a .300 Weatherby Mk V, and the recoil will knock the snot out of you.

    Since it's already a magnum-length action I'm seriously contemplating having it re-barreled in the Mk V contour to .300 H&H.

    Stay safe!
     
  3. Catpop

    Catpop Member

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    I put a mercury capsule in stock and a muzzle brake on my Remington 721. Now it gently pushs instead of kicking your shoulder! It always kicked less than a 300 Winchester magnum.
    Same might work on your Weatherby.
     
    horsey300 likes this.
  4. adcoch1

    adcoch1 Member

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    Been thinking an awful lot about a 300 H&H lately....
     
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  5. Mowgli Terry

    Mowgli Terry Member

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    I have not shot my 721 in some time. I'd suggest loading it as you would any other 300 Magnum. Brass may be a problem. Remember, this cartridge is the daddy of our 300 Magnums. My favorites were 180 grain bullets and IMR 4350. The 300 H&H looks strange compared to more modern magnum rounds. The 300 Weatherby was a 300 H&H improved. I have made Weatherby brass from 300 H&H recently.
     
  6. 94045

    94045 Member

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    Having shot a CZ550 Lux in both .375 H&H and .416 Rigby from a standing bench I have to wonder if a lot of issues are our propensity to shoot sitting down, leaning forward and American Style stocks.

    The .375 was a pussy cat and the .416 Rigby was surprisingly managable for a rifle I consider light for caliber. This from a guy who finds the .270 in a light weight rifle starting to get unpleasant from the bench after 30 rounds or so. At the same time a 12 ga shot standing doesn't bother me in the least.
     
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  7. joed

    joed Member

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    I owned a 300 H&H for almost 20 years. It was a great cartridge, brass rarely needed trimming, recoil was not bad, it was accurate and I still miss it.
     
  8. G'dale Mike

    G'dale Mike Member

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    I have a nice pre 64 in 300 H&H , i am watching this thread with much interest
     
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  9. BigBore44

    BigBore44 Member

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    I bet eastbank has one......or five.
     
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  10. horsemen61

    horsemen61 Member

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    Count me in as a guy who wants one!
     
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  11. tark

    tark Member

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    I may be wrong, but I believe you can safely shoot a 300 H&H round in the Weatherby.
     
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  12. joed

    joed Member

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    I would never try to shoot a H&H in a Weatherby, I would not want to see the results. The H&H was a great cartridge, mine was in a 700 Classic.

    Only reason I sold it was I no longer hunt big game. I preferred the H&H over any .30 Mag, it was that sweet. Not long after I got it I sold a a beautiful 7mm RM in a model 70. The 7mm RM kicked worse then the H&H.
     
  13. Riomouse911

    Riomouse911 Member

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    Yes, it can. The Mark V came with 4 boxes of Weatherby ammo and one box of Win Super X in .300 H&H with about 3 already fireformed into Weatherby brass.
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2018
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  14. Catpop

    Catpop Member

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    Now I never knew that! Learn something new every day. Not that I’ll ever own a weatherby 300, but great to know!
     
  15. cdb1

    cdb1 Member

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    I don’t own one but I’m a big fan. I would like to pick up the newest version of the M70 Alaskan in .375 H&H and have it rebarreled to .300 H&H.
     
  16. adcoch1

    adcoch1 Member

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    I'd love a quick change take down rifle in these two calibers...
     
  17. Mowgli Terry

    Mowgli Terry Member

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    I know making 300 Weatherby from fire forming 300 H&H sounds radical. However, the cartridge is basically an improved 300 H&H. I have made Weatherby brass with 300 H&H cases. As I understand it, there was no factory ammo, as such, when the Weatherby round was introduced. Only rifle looneys and/or people with bunches of H&H brass do this thing today. I used my homemade brass in a Vanguard with no problem. All this ended at a rifle club meet where a member had some for sale reasonable. All my H&H brass come with my 721. My feeling now are pick a magnum. Which ever way you go it's gonna be 3000fps with a 180 gr. bullet:)
     
  18. Offfhand

    Offfhand Member

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    One word describes the .300 H&H: CLASSIC! Classic because the name stirs memories of a classier time. Though it is primarily thought of as a big game (Moose and bears in Alaska, for instance), it also has a history of being very successful target caliber: That began in 1935 when Ben Comfort won the 1000 yard Wimbledon trophy at Camp Perry. The win was challenged by other shooters who had long been of impression that the event was for the..30/06 only. However the judges ruled in favor of Comfort, and virtually overnight the .300 H&H became the go-to round for long range competitors and ruled 1000 yard competition for several years. Winchester offered their heavy barreled M-70 soon after Comfort's win and it became a mainstay on target ranges. (Comfort, by the way, was using a rifle built for him by Griffin&Howe using a Remington Express action. Which is very similar to the 1917 Enfield Remington built during WWI) Griffin &Howe built a lot .300 H&H rifles on M-70 actions, like the one in attached photos. Note the Remington box of .300 Match ammo DSC_0055.JPG DSC_0067.JPG DSC_0057.JPG
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2018
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  19. 94045

    94045 Member

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    Now I've got to go and wipe the drool off my screen. That is just gorgeous.
     
  20. Slamfire

    Slamfire Member

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    I took my 300 H&H and tried two powders: IMR 4350 and WC852. I also only tried 190's, having a bunch of old Hornady 190 SP's and match bullets. Match bullets are more accurate as a rule, but I don't recommend them as a hunting bullet.

    This is a pre 64 M70

    mt2wCE5.jpg

    CdTPuSj.jpg

    the load I settled on at 100 yards. Sixty five grains of powder blew my chronograph around and caused the display to lose most of the shots, but I think any 190 grain bullet traveling at 2900 fps is capable of giving anything on this continent a real hurt.

    ac6c1Nh.jpg

    At 300 yards with a Hornaday 190 BT SP hunting bullet. I think ten shots inside 5 3/4" at 300 yards to be good shooting from a sporter rifle.

    UnkHFhV.jpg

    As you have, or will find, 300 H&H cases are about $2.00 a pop. Maybe you will find that the base to shoulder distance is not controlled on belted magnums, which means that chambers often have excessive base to shoulder distances, compared to the cases, and when you fire them, you will stretch the heck out of the sidewalls of your cases. What happens with dry cases in dry chambers is that the case is pushed forward by the firing pin, pressure builds up, the case neck expands and holds to the chamber, pressure continues to build, and the sidewalls have to stretch as the case is elongated to the bolt face. You can expect two to three firings, if you are lucky, firing dry cases in dry chambers. So, especially for first time firings, I am lubing my cases, and firing them lubed. This breaks the friction between case and chamber. Instead of the case adhering to the chamber walls, it slides to the bolt face. Case shoulders fold out, there is absolutely no sidewall stretch, and you end up with a stress free, perfectly fireformed case. After which, you need to set up your dies and only bump the shoulders back 0.003" if that, for this case.

    Here, I am dipping my 300 H&H cartridges in hair gel, which is mostly vasoline. Case lube is too expensive, I have used industrial greases, but I don't want industrial greases on my hands. I tend to suck my thumb, pick my nose, scratch my ears, and chew my finger nails. Vasoline up the nose,in the ear channel, or in the esophagus is non toxic. Can't say the same for industrial greases. Greasing is a bit messy, but you know, I am willing to get dirty to save money. I am of the opinion that greased bullets reduce copper fouling and as evidenced by my targets, they shoot just fine. Hot water is cheap, and I do wash off before leaving the range as I don't like having lead, primer residue, powder residue, on my hands. Incidentally, the CMP range has hot and cold water in the bath rooms at either side of the 600 yard range.

    2i0Cn8F.jpg

    95sDHVp.jpg
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2018
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  21. Slamfire

    Slamfire Member

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    While I do think the 300 H&H is quite capable of excellent accuracy, a lot of rounds have won the 1000 yard Wimbleton, just due to longevity the 30-06 probably has more wins. This feat of Ben Comfort, well kudo's to him for winning, but I read the number two guy was shooting a M1903 service rifle (irons) and lost out by a V. Ben Comfort's feat is primarily remembered because of one in print gunwriter: Charles Askins. Charles Askins was an in-print troll. He periodically wrote provocative articles , to get angry letters to the editor, which then proved, people were reading his articles. Periodically he would write articles proving the 30-06 was horrible, obsolete, anything it did, other cartridges did better. Charles claimed the 30-06 was obsolete as a target cartridge because Ben Comfort won the Wimbleton with a 300 H&H. He also claimed it was inferior as a hunting cartridge. If Charles were alive today, I wonder if he might have tried getting attention by biting the heads off animals , such as what Ozzie Osbourne did.



    I consider it amazing how long the rantings of a troll gun writer have defined this cartridge.

    Incidentally, Mo Defino told me someone won the Wimbleton with a 7mm Rem Mag, and according to Mo, that put the Long Range Community behind by years, as it took that long for the long range community to determine on the firing line, that the 7mm Rem Magnum was not the next great thing.

    In 1935, yes, Ben Comfort did win the Wimbleton, but the planet did not stop spinning, history did not end, and time has moved on. I suspect the 30-06 was still the most popular long cartridge until the 1970's, because of all the free 30-06 ammunition, all the 30-06 target rifles on the firing line, and that the extra 200-300 feet per second you get with a 300 H&H is not worth the cost or the recoil. From his Team Mates, Larry Moore won the Wimbleton in the early 1960's with a 30-06. If you shoot long range, what you learn, going up in ballistic coefficient adds much more to your score than does a velocity increase. I shot a 30-06 bolt gun, prone, for 1000 yards, and with 200 grain bullets, it kicked. I only got 2700 fps with 200 grain bullets, but it still kicked. It kicked hard enough that it was difficult not to start flinching around the fifth shot. I can't imagine what it would be shooting a 300 H&H prone. I saw very few prone shooters using a 300 Win Magnum. At least prone with a sling, the F Class guys were using it off rests. That round shot well, still too much recoil for a prone rifle. One bud, he built a 30 caliber long range prone rifle around a 30 caliber magnum wildcat, and it was a cannon! I was on the firing line the first time he shot the thing for record. I remember him standing up between relays, blood streaming down his face, because the rear sight had cut him above the eyebrow. The recoil was so stiff that the rear sight went right into his forehead. He was not shooting the thing in the next match. Later I heard, someone got a real deal on that rifle.

    I do think the 300 H&H is an excellent round, it has plenty of velocity, it is capable of excellent accuracy, and it feeds and extracts incredibly smoothly. You have to try the thing to feel how easy it is to chamber a round. That highly sloped shoulder contributes to outstanding reliability in feed and extraction. There is a reason funnels are tapered, if you want something to go down the hole, a taper is the better way to go. I am a fan of cartridge taper, those cylindrical Ackley Improved cartridges are finicky in feed, if they get a little off center, they jam easy. Then, when a tapered cartridge relaxes, it relaxes off a diagonal, increasing the clearance between case and chamber. Straight walled cases will drag on extraction, there is an Army study on 5.56 extractor lift, the 5.56 case is one of those Ackley influenced cases, and it drags on extraction, which causes jams.

    Both the 7.62 X39 and the recent Chinese 5.8 mm round have more taper than the 5.56 round. The 7.62 X 39 is well known for its function reliability, the 5.8 should be equally as good.

    1gfvWmb.jpg
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2018
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  22. Catpop

    Catpop Member

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    I guess I’m just getting a little nostalgic in my old age.
    To me the old super thirty will always be at the top of my list and my Remington 721 my go to rifle for bean field deer hunting.
    That said, a straight stock lever .35 Remington will always be my deer woods rifle.
    And a SA 44 magnum my deer pistol.
    That’s the good thing about the great USA, I have the privilege of having my own opinion!
     
  23. Mowgli Terry

    Mowgli Terry Member

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    I'd do some research on greasing rifle cartridges.Some old timers shared that this practice was dangerous. I'm no fan boy of 300 H&H. It is a wonderful old cartridge. The H&H was the yard stick used to measure performance of 30 caliber magnums in the day. Today, one has several excellent choices of other magnums in current rifles. I like and enjoy shooting older rifles. Today, brass is pretty expensive across the board. Reloading really gets economical compared to prices of factory cartridges. I say go for it. We are this way once. I'd suggest looking at actions that handle the long 300 H&H without grinding away metal. Take care and be safe.

    Addendum: On another forum there was a heated discussion about fire forming H&H brass making 300 Weatherby cases. Using 300 Win Mag cases would not work. You would have a case with steep shoulder and little, if any, neck.
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2018
  24. Slamfire

    Slamfire Member

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    I have shot literally tens of thousands of greased cartridges, maybe getting in the 100 thousand range if you count greased 22lr cartridges. All of the good match 22lr ammunition is coated from tip to rim with a greasy lube.

    bCpDrWy.jpg

    I have written extensively on this topic, and the threads always get shut down by the same moderator, whom I assume, wants to bury this topic. It is very difficult to know the hidden agendas of these guys.

    Polished chambers:

    https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/polished-chambers.838198/#post-10863713

    Machine gun Oiler ?

    https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/machine-gun-oiler.838074/#post-10859789
    Anyway, these threads contain extensive written rationale about this practice, but for me, what worked was actually shooting rounds. For me it started because of the fouling that Iraqi 303 Ball left in my Lee Enfields. The bullets were cupro nickel and it took weeks of soaking with Sweets, and scrubbing with anything I had, to level (but not totally remove) the cupro nickel fouling. Initially I carefully lubed the bullets, tried to keep any grease off the case necks, fired them, and found absolutely no traces of fouling. I also found that no matter how careful I was about grease application, grease coated the cartridge case sides and nothing bad happened. In time, I got sloppier and sloppier in my grease appliction, just dropping the cartridges in a plastic bag, throwing lumps of grease in with them, and using the "shake and bake" method of coating, which resulted in all the cartridges being totally covered in a grease film. No cupro nickel fouling, and no problems.

    Still, it took years of learning and practice to finally convince myself that General Hatcher was just another ex company man defending his old organization and protecting his lobbying interests, through self deceit.

    Do Tobacco Executives really believe that nicotine is not addictive? Maybe they do:



    I wonder how many smokers accepted this argument?

    v1HDGAX.jpg

    For me, I want to save money, I want the maximum lifetime for my brass cases, and so, I am making use of a technique that has been shunned by the American Shooting community because of a 104 year Army coverup.
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2018
  25. Mowgli Terry

    Mowgli Terry Member

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    Bringing up a hot button issue was unintentional.
     
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