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300 Win Mag at 30-06 levels

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by wadestep, Jan 13, 2018.

  1. wadestep

    wadestep Member

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    300 Win Mag - don't seem to be able to edit the title.
    I have a 30-06 rifle that is for me the perfect deer and hog rifle. However, it gets claimed by my wife when we hunt together. So then I end up using a .243 with 100gr bullets. Last weekend a large hog (250-275#) walked out and it just didn't get the job done. I also have seen poor results with it on a roughly 200# black bear. So, looks like I need/want a new rifle.

    I'd just get another 30-06 but I already have one for most of the time, and sometime in the future I'd like to get into moose/elk hunting. I am no longer interested in having a gun that is on the low-power side of OK. (ie 243 for large hog, maybe 30-06 for a moose.) I am thinking about getting a 300 win mag. It looks like the starting 165 gr bullet loads are at 30-06 levels which is what I typically want (less recoil). Yet could still be loaded higher with 180-200 grain bullets and work well for larger game at longer distances.

    Is anyone getting good accuracy with loads in 300 win mag pushing a 165 grain bullet in the 2700-2800 FPS range? Is the recoil on par with 30-06 at that loading even though it requires a bit more powder? I typically load with IMR4350 or Varget, but would branch out. H4895?

    Looking for actual experience, I'd be OK with 1.5" groups max.

    Thanks in advance.
     
  2. dgod

    dgod Member

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    Yes, I am getting Sub-MOA at 200 with mine using ELD-X bullets, which may or may not be a 1st round selection for the bullet as a hunting selection. Having said that, if you can find A-Frame bullets (Sierra I Think), at 200gr or heavier, the 300WM can drop anything in North America.

    Good Luck

    dg
     
  3. .308 Norma

    .308 Norma Member

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    For mule deer, in my beloved .308 Norma Mag (the ballistic twin of a 300 Win Mag) I use 75grs. of H4831 behind Sierra 165gr. HPBTs. That yields a little better than 2900fps from my rifle's 25" barrel.
    To me, it's about like shooting a hot 30-06. And it will go 3 shots in under an inch at 100 yards for me day in and day out.
    However, I'm not all that recoil shy, my .308 Norma weighs almost 9lbs scoped, loaded and slung, and it has a recoil absorbing synthetic stock that was built to my specifications. So your results with your rifle may vary.:)
    BTW, I'm glad to hear your wife claims your 30-06 when you hunt together. My wife uses a 7mm Rem Mag (a Model 70 Winchester) that she had customized for herself 10 or 12 years back. She used to use one of the two 7mm-08s she had before our oldest daughter kind of laid claim to one, and our oldest grandson laid claim to the other.
     
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  4. wadestep

    wadestep Member

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    perfect info - thanks. I think the 300 win mag will suit my needs well.
     
  5. morgaj1

    morgaj1 Member

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    I like to push 165gr bullets out of my 30-06 at around 2750fps for deer hunting. If you look around on Hodgdon's online reloading guide, there are a couple of starting loads in 300 Win Mag for 165gr and 168gr bullets close to that velocity using Varget and H380.

    Don't forget about 300 WSM too.
     
  6. jmr40

    jmr40 Member

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    If you want to shoot 165's @ 2700-2800 fps buy a 308. I'm getting 2750.

    I'm not a fan of loading any cartridge down to minimum levels, don't like to push the envelope either. I've found that best accuracy with any cartridge comes with enough powder in the case to keep it all in place. If the case isn't full and powder can move around you get inconsistent ignition and poor accuracy.

    You don't save that much on recoil either. Bigger cases need more powder to achieve the same velocity and the amount of powder burned has a big effect on recoil. I'm burning 46 gr of powder to get 2750 fps from my 308. Just guessing, but it appears that you'll need about 56 gr of powder to get the same speeds in a 300 WM and about 50 in 30-06.

    Assuming 2750 fps from either 308, 30-06, or 300 WM, the 300 WM will still have the most recoil and the 308 the least. And since the 308 is loaded to its potential and the others 150-350 fps slower than they were designed for the 308 will almost certainly be more accurate.

    Then you have the heavier, longer magnum rifles to lug around. Most magnum rifles will be in the 9 lb range scoped, most 30-06 class rifles in the 8 lb range and 308 class rifles in the 7 lb range.

    You don't need a 300 magnum of any type for bigger game at longer distances. BTDT, sold mine. Better bullets and optics are game changers. We have guys killing elk at near 1/2 mile with 6mm and 6.5mm cartridges now. Not that I advocate that, but a 260, 6.5 Creedmoor, 7-08 or 308 will take any animal in North America; and most of them at ranges of 1/4 mile if the shooter is good enough.
     
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  7. GooseGestapo

    GooseGestapo Member

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    Curious;
    What bullet were you using in the .243 that came up short.
     
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  8. wadestep

    wadestep Member

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    I realized that many people would have this belief and that's why I specifically asked for experience with accuracy with the cartridge at the starting loads listed in most books. Again, I have experience with using an 'underpowered' round, and have personally decided against it. Ethically as a hunter I believe it is my responsibility to use equipment with a very high chance of success. Out of 35-40 animals that I have shot, the only 3 that have not been recovered are with the 243/6mm. I have never not recovered one with a 30-06 or blackpowder (knock on wood). A 80-yd shot at a perfectly positioned pig with failure to recover has me looking for something bigger than 243. I believe that the 1" thick hide and possibly hitting the scapula but not shattering it was the result. I then re-checked for accuracy and point of impact and the 243 is still my most accurate rifle I own, roughly .5MOA.

    I was shooting 100gr Sierra pro-hunter. Super accurate out of my Remington 700. Pig in a field. It did two 360s, stayed on it's feet, was shot a second time but probably rather farther back as it was running, and then disappeared into the woods 20 yards away without a trace. Very similar experience last year with 243 except the 2nd shot happened to hit the spine, or that one was running a long way also.
     
  9. Clark

    Clark Member

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    My post with my 300WM reduced load disappeared:(

    But not all of my posts have disappeared. Some are still on the high road.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2018
  10. Caplock

    Caplock Member

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    243 Winchester is an absolute HAMMER.....on coyotes.

    I have an Encore that has a 300 win mag barrel. Really haven't shot it much but so far starting loads from Hornady with 180 grain bullets shot under 2 inches. That was just the first thing thrown together.

    While start loads and reduced loads might not produce your rifles best accuracy from the bench. It won't just throw them all over the paper. Go for it.
     
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  11. entropy

    entropy Member

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    I hate to see this happen; a guy gets sub-optimal performance with sub-optimal bullets for the game, and wants <Tim Allen voice> MORE POWER, ARRGH ARRGH!</Tim Allen voice. If you can shoot hogs or bear on your deer hunts, load bullets that are better suited for hogs and bear. Try Partitions in 100 gr., or at least Sierra Game Kings in 100gr. Better terminal ballistics with both of those bullets.
    Another .30-06 or a .308 is more than enough for what you need, and a more versatile choice than .300 Win. Mag.
     
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  12. Bfh_auto

    Bfh_auto Member

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    150 gr E-tips with 4831 in a 300 mag seems to be less violent than a 30-06. I feel it's about the added weight of a Magnum contour and a 24 inch barrel. Both rifles are rem 700 with a wood stock. Going from a 165 to a good 150 also makes a big difference in felt recoil.
     
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  13. horsey300

    horsey300 Member

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    As a diehard prohunter proponent, I must suggest a different bullet for the intended applications, 80 yds is pretty close for a .243, make the game a little tougher and an awesome deer bullet can produce less than spectacular results, I agree in a tougher bullet, bonded or coppers would fit very well here. If there's anything I can't kill with the .243 and a proper bullet, I'm darn sure not gonna cripple my .300 wm to go after it, I'm gonna grab a tuff 165, or 180-220 gr bullet and push it hard within accuracy requirements. A .243 rem barrel, can launch 80-95 gr bonded or monolithic bullets at appropriate speeds to get the up close terminal performance we're talking about here. If that don't work the big magnum sure ain't getting neutered!
     
  14. Caplock

    Caplock Member

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    I agree that a 243 should be a good deer killer. People else where are arguing that the 223 is to.

    I think this guy wants a 300 win mag. You can load bullets from 110 grain through 220 grain. You can shoot 180 grain bullet from under 2000 fps to over 3100 fps. Let's see a 308 get that versital.

    If he wanted to be a follower it would be 6.5 creedmore.

    If he wanted to be cool it would be a 7mm-08.

    But no he wants be be the old guy driving a corvette at 55 mph. Just cause it can go 200mph doesn't mean you have to.
     
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  15. wadestep

    wadestep Member

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    Generally speaking I agree that the reason to have a magnum caliber is to run it up at magnum speeds sometimes. Otherwise why bother. I disagree that it has to be run at 100% throttle 100% of the time. Even if other people refer to it as crippled or neutered.

    The nice thing about a corvette is that sometimes you can take it to the track, yet it will still get you to work each day. And maybe you can afford to keep the pickup.

    Thanks for all the input, it has helped me decide to buy one - after looking into the WSM a little more also.
     
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  16. eastbank

    eastbank Member

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    I,m not a one big game rifle owner, but if I was it would be a 7mm-mag or a 300 win mag. and I would reload for it, being able to load from varmites to very large animals. eastbank.
     
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  17. jmorris

    jmorris Member

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    I don’t have any reduced 300 load data but I do have a BAR in 300 WM and a bolt action 300 WM with a brake on it.

    Both have less perceived recoil than one of my regular bolt action 30-06 rifles with a standard butt plate.

    I have to admit to never using either on hogs though but that’s no excuse not to buy another rifle.
     
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  18. cougar1717

    cougar1717 Member

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    I like 300WM, but I'm not a fan of downloading it. IMHO, it really lives using 180's and slow burning extruded rifle powder between 2950 and 3050 fps (ie - near the top of the data). I have attempted to download it without much success. Maybe others have a better combination. I have never tried Hodgdon's H4895 specific download data. For me, Hybrid 100v and 180's attained 2900 fps, but could only get 2 moa at best. I did try H414 for fun once, with mag primers of course, and 180gr bullets. This combo chrono'd 2700 fps and was just over 1.5 moa but I would not recommend at all - I could actually feel the striker drop, a split second then elapsed, and then the rifle recoiled. All loads were within Hodgdon's published data.
     
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  19. wombat13

    wombat13 Member

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    Check out Nosler's reloading data on their website. They show a range of powders and indicate the most accurate charge weight tested. I won't list the actual charge weights, but the following powders were most accurate with the lowest powder charge Nosler lists: VN160 (2,928 fps), IMR 4320 (2,968 fps), H4350 (2,970 fps), RL19 (2,982 fps). You can read more there. IMR 4350 is a good powder for .300WM, but will probably give you higher velocity. It certainly would be worth trying reduced loads of H4895. Hodgdon indicates that H4895 can be loaded down to 60% of the maximum published load (which is 59.0 gr for 2,977 fps on their website). Seems somewhat likely you could find an accurate enough load under 2,900 fps.
     

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