Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by Dragonboy, Jun 10, 2008.
any thoughts here?
read the title. I'm looking at an AR-series rifle chambered in .308 or an M-14, and am looking for anybody with experience with either one.
Again, what is it going to be used for? What is your fiscal limit? Accuracy Expectations? Aftermarket parts? Want to scope it or not?
oh, (bad word). sorry. I totally misunderstood you. I be looking at a survival rifle, something that you'd grab if the world as we know it was ending and you could only take one gun with you.
Either would work. People will tell you that the AR will be more finicky with ammo. If I were you, between the choices, I would find the cheapest M1A you could find. A used one even.
'k. what's it going to take to mount a scope on it?
The problem I had with the M1A was that even though the mount went straight on, it was so high, I couldn't get a comfortable shooting position. I had to lean way into it, and it kept banging me over the eyebrow. (Only fun the first few times.) I did a little digging, and realized that to really use it as intended, I would have to get a different stock, with a raised or adjustable comb. This changed the budget of the project significantly.
Also, the sight picture was actually obscured by the mount. The whole point of trying the project was that I could still use the iron sights, but when I had to move up the rear to zero, I ran out of space. I wound up selling the project to someone more serious than me, and getting another Remington. If I were to try it again, I would probably look at the AR-10. I checked in Impact a few years ago, they had a DPMS that started at $800 something.
maybe I'm just looking in the wrong place, but the M1A seems to be considerably more expensive than the AR-10. is there a really really really good reason to fork over the extra dough?
I've owned an M-14 clone and a PTR-91. For the usage you describe, I can't get too excited about any .308 autoloader. Most of their (supposed) benefits pertain to use in pitched firefights with the spikey-haired mutants and their trained attack bears.
well, what would you get excited about?
Something lighter that fires a smaller, lighter round of which I can carry more. If we are going to play the tired, old
game, then let's play it right.
Ain't going to be no resupply getting airdropped, nor any trips to Wally World either for ammo or anything else. Therefore, the more you can carry, the better off you are. Since you are also going to need to carry food, water, medical supplies, etc. etc. etc. A large heavy gun that uses large heavy ammo is a serious disadvantage. Every ounce of gun or ammo you load yourself up with is an ounce of something else you won't be able to carry.
How delightfully the .308 penetrates barricades and such isn't important if you aren't fool enough to try acting like a soldier when you should be acting like a survivalist ( a real one, not one from the stroke books). You should be doing your best to avoid contact with strangers and avoid firefights with anyone. Ammo you expend is gone. You'll be attracting attention from all sorts of scavengers. Any wound you take is potentially fatal due to possibility of infection and lack of hygiene and medical help.
Nope. .308 autoloaders don't send me as survival rifles.
I would choose the M1A (M14) or even the M1 Garand over the .308 on an AR frame. I had a DPMS LR308 (I think that is what it was) and it had the bull barrel which was unwieldly, and heavy. That gun was designed to be shot from a bench or a bipod. The M1 and the M14 were designed to be shot from any position. I think that with .308 ammo, the M1A and with 30-06 ammo the M1 will hold up better and longer than the AR style rifle. If you don't want something with as much wood as a military rifle and want a simi auto, look at Remington and Browning sporting rifles.
Considered the AR platform in 5.56mm?
I had a real nice ArmaLite AR-10 A4 SPR plus a carbine upper.
As much as I tried to love it, I ended up selling it in favor of another M14.
It was an easy decision because the AR-10 was no lighter or accurate than my M14s.
I no longer have any AR type rifles.
I have an M1A loaded and a flattop AR10C. The AR10C wins hands down for several reasons:
Better ergonomics, lighter, handier package, I'm already familiar with care and maintenance (think big, beefy AR15. If you know that platform, you know this one.), and surprisingly enough, it's slightly more accurate than my M1A unless I spend extra dough to further accurize the M1A. The Picatinny rail is already there, most optics mount with no special modifications, the cheekweld is in the correct place for me already without having to build up the stock and it was cheaper than my M1A. If it were a "run for the hills" situation, I'd grab the AR10 before the M1A.
I'm not selling my M1A yet, but if it came down to a choice the AR would stay, the M1A would regretfully go.
will 5.56 really work for anything bigger than a groundhog?
what about a shotgun? or are we again getting too heavy?
I really wonder if anyone will really survive an end of the world senario well enough to matter what you have to defend yourself. With a decent quality of life gone what is really the point? Most of us live a spoiled pampered lifestyle so we have no idea how to really rough it, Weekends at deer camp with your RV and satelite TV doesn't count for roughing it, not to mention getting old. I think 99% wouldn't make it more than a few months to a year at most. Most would be better off just to own a pistol with 1 round for themselves.
I have a Bushmaster AR-10 and and Springfield M-21. Both are deadly accurate but out of the 2 I have I would say I much prefer the AR-10 for running around in the woods. The AR-10 is lighter, easier to load mags and easier to move around in tight places.
I also have a Bushmaster BAR-10, and love it. I also have an AR-15, Mini-14, Mini-30, and some .22LRs.
Anti-personel, I'd grab the Mini-30. For hunting large game, I'd go with my AR-10.
op didn't give much info to work with. i love the m1a platform and i love the ar platform. i am better and more familiar with the ar platform so therefor i would probally go with the ar just because i know it so good. but i tell you the allure of he m1a is unbearable for sure and t would be a hard choice.
My life isn't exactly pampered, and I don't know if I would mind roughing it or not. Besides, due to my location, I would more likely bug-in as opposed to heading for the hills, in which case a heavy 308 doesn't sound like a bad idea, considering my house would be more like a pill box.
That being said, what about an intermediate cartridge like 6.8spc, 6.5 grendel, even 300 whisper? More energy and lighter weight, makes a good trade off if you ask me. Get one of each if you can't decide.
FWIW: My buddy's socom 16 is comfy shooting from standing unsupported with iron sights, as well as having a forward optics mount that yearns for an aimpoint, even an EER scope with quick detach mounts. I have no experience with the AR10.
Edit: Also, the 5.56 round was designed to shoot a 70's grain bullet in a 1-12 (i think) twist so the marginally stabilized bullet would travel 3 inches into whatever you were shooting before it tumbled, making serious wounds. The lethality was destroyed when the army went to a 1-7 twist, which indeed made it more accurate, but not without a trade off.
I would and did get a M1A before I got my AR's. I have 2 AR's and one M1A.
I would and will get another M1A, a Scout to go along with my Loaded model, before getting an AR in the .308 caliber.
In a SHTF situation I would grab the M1A before the AR.
M1A might even be a lettle less expensive too.
How about one of the shorter M1As like the SOCOM 16?
People are bigger than groudhog. You could take deer in a survival situ, but I wouldn't go around hunting w/ .223. That kid that died in the alaska outback had successfully hunted large elk (I believe) with a .22 rimfire. Shot placement/multiple shots goes a long way. Still wouldn't ever reccomend for a rec hunter though.
Get a saiga in .308 if you really want a .308. I got mine for $350 a few months ago and it is invincible.
I'd go with the M1A.
I've heard quite a bit about 308 ARs having reliability problems.
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