.308 AR - Wrong Primer - Blew Firing Pin Out of Bolt Carrier

[higgite]

The round that caused this recorded 2675 fps of the Match King HPBT 175 gr bullet.

What seems to be missing, this wasn't a start load, this is 40 rounds into a load development and yes, it was started much lower than these last two shown. The first were 2550 fps.

What length is your barrel?

 

[Load Master]

What length is your barrel?

20" 1:10

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Indeed. Who would put out LR primers that can't be used in .308? If they can't be used in .308 I imagine that rules out a great many rifle calibers. I'm glad I didn't buy any. I bought SR, LP, and SP to try out.

AC, not completely unheard of. Remington is still producing their #6 1/2 SR primers but they are only recommended for use in the 22 Hornet and the like. I don't get that or the S&B LR restrictions especially when there is nothing on either box to warn you.

 

[Load Master]

AC, not completely unheard of. Remington is still producing their #6 1/2 SR primers but they are only recommended for use in the 22 Hornet and the like. I don't get that or the S&B LR restrictions especially when there is nothing on either box to warn you.

I have put in a request with S&B product support for help with this. Something I should have done earlier. If I look online for the 5.3 LR-SE that are listed in their product chart posted earlier, I can not find them. If they are for sale I don't know where. I'll report back what I hear directly from them.

 

[higgite]

According to the load chart in your post #15, velocity for that bullet/powder combo with max charge is 2728 fps out of a 24” barrel. You say your problem round registered 2675 fps out of 20” barrel in a gas operated semi-auto with a blown primer leaking enough pressure to blow the firing pin out of the bolt. Have to wonder what the peak pressure would have to be for all that to happen.

 

[Havok7416]

This doesn't sound like a primer causing the problem. I can't see just a primer change causing all the damage shown and described. Stepping up from a standard to a magnum type primer usually only results on a couple thousand PSI increase for the same weight charge.

 

[GBExpat]

Again, the intent of the post was to identify that Sellier & Bellot makes two different Large Rifle Primers. No where on the box does it indicate the one, LR isn't designed for use in .308 Win. The LR-SE is.

Thank you for that!

I am sure that you had a lot of us who have S&B primers on-hand checking their stock ... I know that I did.

 

[Walkalong]

AC, not completely unheard of. Remington is still producing their #6 1/2 SR primers but they are only recommended for use in the 22 Hornet and the like. I don't get that or the S&B LR restrictions especially when there is nothing on either box to warn you.

I am aware of that one, I guess because they have been available so long here. Makes more sense too. Federal did/does the same thing.

I definitely have two different kinds of S&B SP primers. When the boxes came in they were packaged differently. I wondered if they just changed designs (picture/color), but they were also marked differently.

Looking forward to Load Master's reply from S&B.

 

[Load Master]

According to the load chart in your post #15, velocity for that bullet/powder combo with max charge is 2728 fps out of a 24” barrel. You say your problem round registered 2675 fps out of 20” barrel in a gas operated semi-auto with a blown primer leaking enough pressure to blow the firing pin out of the bolt. Have to wonder what the peak pressure would have to be for all that to happen.

Your self and a couple of others have pointed to a gas operated gun. I would love to understand how you believe this plays into the primer compared to a manual bolt gun. Can you elaborate?

 

[Englishmn]

Your self and a couple of others have pointed to a gas operated gun. I would love to understand how you believe this plays into the primer compared to a manual bolt gun. Can you elaborate?

Almost same fps on shorter barrel and with a gas system that should drop fps even more and a blown primer venting more pressure, meaning it must of been hotter than the test load in a 24 inch barrel.

 

[Load Master]

Almost same fps on shorter barrel and with a gas system that should drop fps even more and a blown primer venting more pressure, meaning it must of been hotter than the test load in a 24 inch barrel.

First off, the velocity wasn't "Almost same". The subject of velocity difference between a manual versus gas operated bolt system has been covered on The Highroad. Conclusion, very little if any difference in velocity due to gas operated bolt system. There are plenty of references to velocity differences with barrel length that seem to SWAG it at ~ 20fps per inch.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I am aware of that one, I guess because they have been available so long here. Makes more sense too. Federal did/does the same thing.

I definitely have two different kinds of S&B SP primers. When the boxes came in they were packaged differently. I wondered if they just changed designs (picture/color), but they were also marked differently.

Looking forward to Load Master's reply from S&B.

In any case, I agree with you it might be better for the time being to avoid S&B primers.

 

[Load Master]

For what it's worth, these are the primers I'm using.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

That packaging is very misleading. It clearly states for rifle cartridges but does not mention the limitations in rifle cartridges. Not good!

 

[Rule3]

I have searched the Universe for SB LR primers and only find one "type" listed?? Cabellas seems to be the only vendor that has any in stock??

http://www.cabelas.com/product/SELLIER-BELLOT-PRIMERS-BRICK/2002898.uts

I think a response from SB is definitely needed.

 

[Walkalong]

Cabelas doesn't differentiate on small pistol primers either. I'll get a pic of the two types (Or at least the two types of boxes) I have and post it later.

I got them for $20 per 1K, and they go bang, so I'm not crying, but I don't see myself rushing out to buy more at the moment.

 

[Load Master]

Cabelas doesn't differentiate on small pistol primers either. I'll get a pic of the two types (Or at least the two types of boxes) I have and post it later.

I got them for $20 per 1K, and they go bang, so I'm not crying, but I don't see myself rushing out to buy more at the moment.

I have may boxes of small and large pistol, small and large rifle. Sellier and Bellot are my favorite of primers. They have given me my lowest standard deviations compared to other brands. They also work well in my progressive presses.

Sellier and Bellot's tech support are in email contact and I have sent them information that I have shared here. I'm waiting on them to respond back. They shared that they no longer make the 5.3 LR-SE. I'll post whatever new info I hear back from them relating to my issue.

 

[Walkalong]

Excellent. Thanks.

I have shot some of their SP primers in 9MM and .38 Spl with no complaints. I did not buy any LR and haven't tried the 1K of SR.

 

[Load Master]

Excellent. Thanks.

I have shot some of their SP primers in 9MM and .38 Spl with no complaints. I did not buy any LR and haven't tried the 1K of SR.

The contact from S&B support sent a reply that he has forward the info to the factory. I expect that might take a day or two for them to respond.

 

[HankC]

I have put in a request with S&B product support for help with this. Something I should have done earlier. If I look online for the 5.3 LR-SE that are listed in their product chart posted earlier, I can not find them. If they are for sale I don't know where. I'll report back what I hear directly from them.

You got me curious and did the same, post a question by using contact them at the US site last night to ask what is the difference between LR and LR-SE and why the US site "Components" Usage Guide says using LR-SE for 308WIN while the CZ site does not even lists LR-SE. Got a reply email. Copy and paste as below. 5.3 LR is the thing for 308WIN!

"The large rifle primer is the correct primer to use for reloading the 308 Win. As far as the Large Rifle Primer SE. S&B no longer is producing that and I am unsure of what the difference between them was. I have never seen them since I have been working here.

Thanks

Nick Peterson

Magtech Ammunition Company, Inc."

 

[2ndtimer]

Interesting thread. I have a supply of Sellier & Bellot large rifle magnum primers that I got for a very good price back when any primers were difficult to come by. They are supposed to be for magnum cartridges, but when loaded in a Browning A-Bolt .300 Win Mag with Alliant Power Pro 4000-MR, gave momentary hang fires. They seemed to work okay in a Winchester Model 70 .270 WSM, but I am a little leery of them, especially in cold weather. I have loaded some .308 Win ammo with them and they seemed fine in the .308 with mild loads. Any one else try these. (I still have over 4600 of them on hand and would sure appreciate anyone's experience with them)

 

[Rule3]

You got me curious and did the same, post a question by using contact them at the US site last night to ask what is the difference between LR and LR-SE and why the US site "Components" Usage Guide says using LR-SE for 308WIN while the CZ site does not even lists LR-SE. Got a reply email. Copy and paste as below. 5.3 LR is the thing for 308WIN!

"The large rifle primer is the correct primer to use for reloading the 308 Win. As far as the Large Rifle Primer SE. S&B no longer is producing that and I am unsure of what the difference between them was. I have never seen them since I have been working here.

Thanks

Nick Peterson

Magtech Ammunition Company, Inc."

And there you have it!

 

[Walkalong]

4.4 Boxer & 4.4 SP Boxer. They are labeled differently with different packaging. So, did they just change the packaging? Or are the primers different? It's what I have been wondering since I received the second ones. (Pictured on top)

 

[RugerOldArmy]

This is good to know...I have 5K of the S&B LR primers.

I've had no issues with S&B primers in the past.

They've handled some warmish .22-250 loads just fine.

 

[Walkalong]

They look the same. And it does say small pistol on the sleeves of the newer packages, just differently. My guess is they are the same thing in updated packaging.