Uhh, the 30-06 does kick more, I have a Mauser 30-06 that weighs a few pounds more than my Mossberg 308 and the -06 definitely has more kick shooting the same grain bullet, both have nice cushy pads on them so it don't matter to me.
308 or 30-06?
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Ridgerunner665
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Krochus,
Those are not tired old facts from the 70's, I have 3 chrono's and know how to use them.
I also have a 308 T/C Contender...and it does not get its best speed with RL 15 like my rifles do...it does MUCH better with AA2230.
And the 30-06 does use slow powders...so do all of its offspring (25-06, 270, 280, etc), and they need a longer barrel to get up to speed...we've had this argument before...
I worked up a load for a friend who had a chopped 30-06...a T/C Encore in 30-06 with a 15 inch barrel, and I know for a fact that my 308 Encore with a 14 inch barrel was 100 FPS faster in all bullet weights with any powder made...H4895 was best for the 30-06 (thats a medium burn rate powder) and AA2230 is best in the 308 (thats a VERY fast burning powder)
I'm on my way out to see if I can find Bambi's daddy....more when I come back.
Those are not tired old facts from the 70's, I have 3 chrono's and know how to use them.
I also have a 308 T/C Contender...and it does not get its best speed with RL 15 like my rifles do...it does MUCH better with AA2230.
And the 30-06 does use slow powders...so do all of its offspring (25-06, 270, 280, etc), and they need a longer barrel to get up to speed...we've had this argument before...
I worked up a load for a friend who had a chopped 30-06...a T/C Encore in 30-06 with a 15 inch barrel, and I know for a fact that my 308 Encore with a 14 inch barrel was 100 FPS faster in all bullet weights with any powder made...H4895 was best for the 30-06 (thats a medium burn rate powder) and AA2230 is best in the 308 (thats a VERY fast burning powder)
I'm on my way out to see if I can find Bambi's daddy....more when I come back.
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B.D. Turner
Member
I have taken deer with both the .308 (spanish mauser) and the .30-06(winchester mod 70). Both deer were dead on the spot.
I don't know where some of these guys are getting their ammo but I have several rifles in each caliber and the 06 shoots equal bullet weights a bit faster and in identical guns has a bit more recoil. The difference is small but real.
I like both and if deer sized animals are all you plan to hunt both are really overkill. If there is a possibility of game larger than deer I like the 06 because it will handle heavier bullets.
For target shooting I shoot my .308's a bit better and the difference in recoil could be part of the reason. I can still get .308 ammo a bit cheaper than any 30-06 I have been able to find.
I could not decide and ended up several of each. If forced to keep only one gun it would be the 30-06.
I like both and if deer sized animals are all you plan to hunt both are really overkill. If there is a possibility of game larger than deer I like the 06 because it will handle heavier bullets.
For target shooting I shoot my .308's a bit better and the difference in recoil could be part of the reason. I can still get .308 ammo a bit cheaper than any 30-06 I have been able to find.
I could not decide and ended up several of each. If forced to keep only one gun it would be the 30-06.
I have several rifles in 30-06 none in 308. Reason, back in 1963 Dad won a Win Mod 70 featherweight in 30-06 in a sales contest and gave to me, hence my longtime affair with the '06.
Friends in national guard also gave me a lot of ammo, they had more of that than of 308.
If that first rifle had been a 308, the other 30-06's would probably have been in 308.
For practical use I do not see that much difference. Look at bullets available, loading manuals to see what you can do with them, and consider what you are to be hunting.
Like most folks say, unless you are to hunt larger animals, moose, elk, bears other thant black bear, the 308 will be more than adequate. If you go for the larger animals and need the heavier bullets, then go with the '06 as it has a slight edge.
Friends in national guard also gave me a lot of ammo, they had more of that than of 308.
If that first rifle had been a 308, the other 30-06's would probably have been in 308.
For practical use I do not see that much difference. Look at bullets available, loading manuals to see what you can do with them, and consider what you are to be hunting.
Like most folks say, unless you are to hunt larger animals, moose, elk, bears other thant black bear, the 308 will be more than adequate. If you go for the larger animals and need the heavier bullets, then go with the '06 as it has a slight edge.
Ash
Member
I have both. However, I tend to prefer the 30-06. In Mississippi, Louisiana, Texas, Alabama, and Florida, there is really no difference. However, the 30-06 can accept a greater variety of bullets and so is technically more versatile for a one-gun person. Me, I have 243, 308, 30-06, and 7mm Mag. I have my bases covered no matter what.
But my first was a 30-06.
Ash
But my first was a 30-06.
Ash
Ben Shepherd
Member
Up to a 150-165 grain slug, with both calibers working at max SAMMI pressures, there isn't a lick of difference in thier potential. The individual chamber/barrel in question will be the deciding factor.
150-165 grain out of either caliber is an EXCELLENT choice for deer. So which ever you find first in a gun that fits you, in your price range.
Around my neck of the woods there is a slight advantage in ammo avalibility favoring the '06.
Now, if there's an elk or moose hunt in your future? The '06 handles the heavier 180-200 grainers MUCH better.
150-165 grain out of either caliber is an EXCELLENT choice for deer. So which ever you find first in a gun that fits you, in your price range.
Around my neck of the woods there is a slight advantage in ammo avalibility favoring the '06.
Now, if there's an elk or moose hunt in your future? The '06 handles the heavier 180-200 grainers MUCH better.
XD-40 Shooter
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Granted, I'm comparing different rifles of different weight here, but according to my Lee shooter program, the recoil difference between the 30-06 and .308 is significant. In my dad's 7lb Browning 30-06, with a 165 grain load, it shows 20 ft lbs recoil. In our Remmy 700 tactical, 20" heavy barrel, .308, which weighs in at about 8 lbs, it show's a recoil energy of about 16 ft lbs.
That's right at 20% less recoil energy.
By the way, when I shoot both of these rifles, I can definitely tell the difference. 20 rounds from the 30-06 and my shoulder is feeling it. 40 rounds out of the .308 and I'm still doing fine.
That's right at 20% less recoil energy.
By the way, when I shoot both of these rifles, I can definitely tell the difference. 20 rounds from the 30-06 and my shoulder is feeling it. 40 rounds out of the .308 and I'm still doing fine.
R.W.Dale
Member
DUH!
Because the rapidly expanding gasses from the BURNT powder don't have as much time to push on the base of the bullet in a short barrel.
If what you say were true you could simply load 5.56 with a faster powder and not lose any velocity in a shorter barrel. BUT IT DOESN'T WORK THAT WAY!
I use the same can of varget to load 30-06 and 308 with the same bullet weights and get the same top levels of performance. There aren't many 30-06 loads that utilize powders as slow as the other cartridges you cite, 270 and 25/06 really shine with IMR 4831 this powder is far too slow for top preformance in 30/06 when shooting the same weight range of projectiles as 308
XD-40 Shooter
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Another advantage to the .308, you can get full velocity out of a 20" barrel, its a very efficient cartridge. SWAT teams have even gone down to 18" barrels with only 30 fps velocity loss.
The .308 will handle Elk sized game out to 200 yards, its not ideal, but it'll get the job done. Just make sure you've got a good 180 grain bullet.
The .308 will handle Elk sized game out to 200 yards, its not ideal, but it'll get the job done. Just make sure you've got a good 180 grain bullet.
Ash
Member
Still, 30-06 is more versatile. The 308 may be just as good in most circumstances, but the 30-06 can do more. 308 might work for Elk, but 30-06 works better.
Now, SWAT uses are not really useful in the discussion for a hunting rifle. The kind of rifle used by a precision sniper can be used in hunting, but it is not a hunting rifle and few would say it is ideal for that role. Therefore, the cartridge selection is not really all that useful, either.
As used by SWAT, the 30-06 is slightly less accurate, or at least it is on paper, and so the 308 has the advantage. But in hunting, any potential advantage the 308 provides to SWAT teams is outweighed by the advantages in hunting the 30-06 provides.
In either case, the 308 or the 30-06 will do just about anything you need in North America. While there is a real difference, the difference may make no difference at all.
Ash
Now, SWAT uses are not really useful in the discussion for a hunting rifle. The kind of rifle used by a precision sniper can be used in hunting, but it is not a hunting rifle and few would say it is ideal for that role. Therefore, the cartridge selection is not really all that useful, either.
As used by SWAT, the 30-06 is slightly less accurate, or at least it is on paper, and so the 308 has the advantage. But in hunting, any potential advantage the 308 provides to SWAT teams is outweighed by the advantages in hunting the 30-06 provides.
In either case, the 308 or the 30-06 will do just about anything you need in North America. While there is a real difference, the difference may make no difference at all.
Ash
R.W.Dale
Member
http://www.shootingsoftware.com/images/sampletrace1.gif
it supposedly takes about 1.5 milliseconds for a bullet to get out the end of the barrel
as you can see from this pressure trace by half that distance almost 50% of the pressure has bled off by 2/3 way down the bbl this is due to the ever increasing volume it has to fill as the bullet progressed down the bore. You can also quite clearly see the point where the powder charge gets converted into a very high pressure charge of gasses at the peak pressure event. Everything past that point is simply the bullet getting pushed out of the way so those gasses can get to where they want to go, IE atmospheric pressure after the bullet leaves the muzzle
Guns don't work like rockets, the propellant must be converted to gas VERY rapidly for a firearm to preform at all.
John Barnsess wrote a great article about this and other handloading myths for the July 2002 issue of handloader magazine
it supposedly takes about 1.5 milliseconds for a bullet to get out the end of the barrel
as you can see from this pressure trace by half that distance almost 50% of the pressure has bled off by 2/3 way down the bbl this is due to the ever increasing volume it has to fill as the bullet progressed down the bore. You can also quite clearly see the point where the powder charge gets converted into a very high pressure charge of gasses at the peak pressure event. Everything past that point is simply the bullet getting pushed out of the way so those gasses can get to where they want to go, IE atmospheric pressure after the bullet leaves the muzzle
Guns don't work like rockets, the propellant must be converted to gas VERY rapidly for a firearm to preform at all.
John Barnsess wrote a great article about this and other handloading myths for the July 2002 issue of handloader magazine
1911Gunslinger
Member
30 06 has an advantage in velocity which will help with longer shots but .308 are short actions(the receiver is shorter) and function better with shorter barrels which can amount to a 1/2 to 1 lb weight savings and shorter barrels make for quicker pointing rifles, both important factors if you are in the woods.
TCB in TN
Member
You are also missing the major difference in platforms. Different ergonomics result in different "felt recoil". With the same bullet, loaded to the same velocities, out of the same platform there is no difference in recoil from two 30 cal rifles. Using differing loads out of different platforms of course there will be a difference!
Neo-Luddite
Member
.30-06-----because the CMP doesn't have any 7.62 NATO to sell you for 26 cents a round--and NO ONE else does either.
And owing to the specifics of ATF regs AP m2 in .06 is LEGALLY sporting ammo that can be sold without restriction. Not true of AP loaded in a 7.62 case. You're rolling your own on that.
These reasons and all the above named ones. .308 is fine, but .06 has a slight edge in terms of subtle extremes of performnace admitedly on the edge of the 'but who CARES' curve.
If we were suddenly awash in cheap .308, then I'd say go for it.
But for now the King is still King of the Center fire world and not seeming ready to abdicate in favor of the (also venerable) Crown Prince.
And owing to the specifics of ATF regs AP m2 in .06 is LEGALLY sporting ammo that can be sold without restriction. Not true of AP loaded in a 7.62 case. You're rolling your own on that.
These reasons and all the above named ones. .308 is fine, but .06 has a slight edge in terms of subtle extremes of performnace admitedly on the edge of the 'but who CARES' curve.
If we were suddenly awash in cheap .308, then I'd say go for it.
But for now the King is still King of the Center fire world and not seeming ready to abdicate in favor of the (also venerable) Crown Prince.
R.W.Dale
Member
Comparing the same remington SPS a 30-06 weighs 7 3/8 pounds, a 308 tips the scales at 7 1/4 lbs.
The differences is a whopping 1/8th of a pound
the OAL length of a 30/06 is a mere 7/8 of an inch longer than the same 308 sps.
Let's keep it real here, if action length and handling were that important we'd all be hunting with break action single shots. After all an encore with a 28" barrel is shorter overall than a rem700 with a 22" tube
The differences is a whopping 1/8th of a pound
the OAL length of a 30/06 is a mere 7/8 of an inch longer than the same 308 sps.
Let's keep it real here, if action length and handling were that important we'd all be hunting with break action single shots. After all an encore with a 28" barrel is shorter overall than a rem700 with a 22" tube
kcmarine
Member
Not this argument again.
XD-40 Shooter
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TCB, I agree. In the same weight rifle/platform, the recoil would be about the same for 30-06 and .308. As far as cheap ammo is concerned, wideners.com has surplus yugo .308 FMJ for $99/200 rounds. Wideners claims they have fired this stuff and its good ammo.
By the way, I don't hunt, I just enjoy long range paper punching. I really like the .308 for this purpose. The Remmy 700 SPS tactical is a really sweet rifle.
By the way, I don't hunt, I just enjoy long range paper punching. I really like the .308 for this purpose. The Remmy 700 SPS tactical is a really sweet rifle.
kount_zer0
Member
For deer hunting, not really. For Elk, I picked the '06 to stay in a comfotable margin of velocity with heavier bullets. The '06 is very slightly more versatile with heavier 30cal projectiles. Higher case capacity in the '06 allows higher velocity within the same margins of pressure safety.
The rifle I was thinking of had identical weight in both calibers, despite the action length differences - go figure.
Where I live, 30-06 ammo can be had more often for less cash in most places, but that was only a consideration while I was shooting factory ammo to get brass and practice at the same time, since I reload.
In the rifle I was looking at the '06 will handle heavier bullets well, since I can seat the projectile close to the lands and still have room in the magazine.
Recoil may be differnt in different rifls, but it's so subjective as to be ignored. Neither is uncomfortable, especially fitted with a good after market recoil pad.
The differences are all in the details, which limits any practical difference to nil, unless you're looking for something specific.
Ash
Member
Many rifles do 308 in a short action but there are a tremendous number of 308's out there in standard actions and for them there is no difference in length of throw. However, even in those rifles where length of throw is different, if that short distance is enough to make a difference, you probably should not have taken the shot in the first place.
In any case, the first shot cares little what length action it comes out of.
Ash
In any case, the first shot cares little what length action it comes out of.
Ash
gentleman987
Member
The reason i chose the 308. is because i wanted a shorter action thats one of the few reasons the 300-06 has a wider selection of ammo
Vern Humphrey
Member
As I have pointed out, factory loads in the .30-06 are held to a bit lower pressure than the .308, or to put it another way, the .308 does what it does by being loaded to higher pressure than the .30-06.
Now, if your .30-06 is something other than a low-number Springfield, you can load it to the same pressure as a .308 and gain around 1-200 fps.
Now, if your .30-06 is something other than a low-number Springfield, you can load it to the same pressure as a .308 and gain around 1-200 fps.
CYANIDEGENOCIDE
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get the .30-06 you can always download to .308 standards. When you decide you want to run a 220 gr bullet you still have the option.
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