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.308 v. 30-06 Accuracy Issue

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by OneShot!, Jun 16, 2007.

?

.308 v. 30-06 Which is more accurate?

Poll closed Jun 18, 2007.
  1. 30-06

    15 vote(s)
    30.0%
  2. .308

    35 vote(s)
    70.0%
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  1. OneShot!

    OneShot! member

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    Which cartridge is more accurate for hitting long distance targets?
     
  2. jerkface11

    jerkface11 Member

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    I'm saying 06 because it will shoot the heavy bullets faster. Other than that they're going to do the same thing.
     
  3. Outlaws

    Outlaws Member

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    There were tests if I recall that showed the .308 produced groups a few inches smaller at 600 and 1000 yards. But if you ask me, a quality rifle with quality hand loaded ammo will make it a toss up.
     
  4. R.W.Dale

    R.W.Dale Member

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    If the time is taken to build a high quality firearm the chambering will not matter, The whole X cartridge is more accurate than Y cartridge is nothing but a wad of warm steaming horsepucky.

    Oh sure 32-40 may not be as accurate as 6.5/284 but in terms of modern high performance chamberings (anything developed in the past century) NOTHING has any real advantage over another especially in sub $10K non benchrest guns.

    Now that being said I agree with Jerkface11 on the 30-06 being able to use high BC heavier bullets than a .308 can handle will be a distinct advantage when the wind starts blowin.
     
  5. glockman19

    glockman19 Member

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    I voted .308 but i fyou put them both in a fixed rest I think the difference would be so negligible you wouldn't notice the difference. probably less than .125" MOA differnce
     
  6. USSR

    USSR Member

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    A poll like this is meaningless. Accuracy is a function of the quality of components and smithing that goes into a particular rifle, the type of load being fired in it, to say nothing of the ability of the shooter. Accuracy has nothing to do with what the headstamp on the base of the brass says.

    Don
     
  7. rockstar.esq

    rockstar.esq Member

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    krochus: I simply don't agree. The .32 WCF is a fine example of where a cartridges design is a limitation. For example, the .22 Hornet has a MUCH better accuracy record than the .32WCF. Anshutz and others chamber their olympic style rifles in .22 Hornet for a reason. Getting something to "seviceable" is not the same as gilt edge accuracy. Benchresters and rifle loonies pursue ANY lead that might result in getting smaller groups. Like it or not, I don't see 1/4 MOA groups from blackpowder era cartridges even on rifles with every bit of gunsmithing magic applied to them.

    The .308 Winchester's debut caused the Camp Perry 1000yd center ring to be reduced BY HALF IT'S DIAMETER. To better differentiate the groups shot by the .308 shooters. The rifles used in 30-06 were pretty much the same as those used in .308 Winchester. This is why we hear about "shorter stiffer actions" being part of the accuracy equation.

    That's not to say that everything short is accurate. I'm sure you could mention the .338 Lapua magnum which is capable of amazing accuracy. Guess what? Lapua intentionally designed the .338 LM to be a long range accuracy cartridge! All of which goes to show that the cartridge absolutely affects the accuracy potential.
    bv
     
  8. R.W.Dale

    R.W.Dale Member

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    And that was how long ago??? Almost 60 yrs now. Trust me with todays powders bullets and modern firearms design you can have a 30-06 that's just as accurate as a 308.
     
  9. TimboKhan

    TimboKhan Moderator

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    I don't necessarily disagree with you on that point, but it is worth mentioning that snipers, who are obviously interested in performance at varying ranges and extreme accuracy, are very fond of the .308. I think there are probably superior long range rounds to the .308 if thats all your looking for. For example, David Tubb uses a cartridge he developed called the 6mmXC. Quouting him directly, he says:
    He and others have won Camp Perry championships with this round, speaking volumes for it's long-range effectiveness. Of course, the round is more or less a wildcat, which is a turn off to a large percentage of shooters. Isn't it interesting though that he sought to mirror the performance of the .243 Winchester, a cartridge precisely no one has mentioned?

    I also somewhat disagree with the argument that the round itself doesn't matter. While it is possible for a good shooter to use any reasonable round at ranges up to 1000 yards with pretty good effect, to say that the round itself is more or less inconsequential is just incorrect. Of course, it bears mentioning that we are talking about splitting hairs here. If I could shoot into 3 feet at 1000 yards, I would be pretty happy, whereas a guy like Tubbs probably isn't happy with 3 inches. What it comes down to is the degree of accuracy you wish to attain. Assuming the ability to shoot that far is in place, it makes sense that the round is less important if you just want to take the occasional long range shot. If your interested in extreme accuracy, then the round is an important part of the equation.
     
  10. Outlaws

    Outlaws Member

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    Care to take a crack and the prevalence of the 6mmPPC in benchrest competitions?
     
  11. General Geoff

    General Geoff Member

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    .308 was designed to replicate the ballistic properties of .30-'06. As such, they should by all means be all but identical.
     
  12. USSR

    USSR Member

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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by USSR
    Accuracy is a function of the quality of components and smithing that goes into a particular rifle, the type of load being fired in it, to say nothing of the ability of the shooter. Accuracy has nothing to do with what the headstamp on the base of the brass says.

    Let's see, how many of those New England break action single shots or Remington Model 710's do we find on the benchrest line using factory ammo? Every single rifle used in serious benchrest competition consists of a custom built rifle using the finest of components, smithed by the best gunsmiths to be found. All ammunition is custom loaded using great care and extremely precise instruments. Winning and losing is often measured in thousands of an inch. Benchrest is a game with a specific set a rules. There are certain cartridges that have been developed that are optimized to operate in this artificial environment. Change the rules of the game, and another cartridge may be better suited. In summary, I am sure you would find more accuracy with a GAP built rifle in a non PPC cartridge over a factory 6mmPPC anyday.

    Don
     
  13. azhunter12

    azhunter12 Member

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    I don't think theres too much difference but I haven't studied tons of charts like some other people have.
     
  14. Outlaws

    Outlaws Member

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    So to paraphrase....
    Yes, the cartridge type does effect accuracy.
     
  15. USSR

    USSR Member

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    Sure, if you want to ignore the 99% of what REALLY effects accuracy and concentrate on the 1%, knock yourself out.

    Don
     
  16. js2013

    js2013 Member

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    all things equal, 308.
     
  17. High Planes Drifter

    High Planes Drifter Member

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    With commercial ammo and a commercial rifle i.e. Remington 700 or Winchester M70 , I dont think you'll see a gnats ass worth of difference between any major/common caliber from .243Win. to 300WM probably out to 200 or 250 yards. You didnt state wether or not you were looking to get into benchrest competition, so Im assuming you're talking commercially produced hardware.

    All of this being said, if in fact , you are looking for a super accurate commercially produced rifle to shoot commercially produced ammo out of, I'd take a hard look at a flat top DPMS AR 10. Or even better, a Cobb modular rifle, that way you can try each caliber.


    Edited, I spelled "gnats" wrong.:eek:
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2007
  18. Quintin Likely

    Quintin Likely Member

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    Big scores have been shot by both on those hallowed grounds at Camp Perry.

    Lots of bad guys have been kilt with both over the years.

    I've read that theoretically, the .308 has a slight advantage in raw accuracy over the '06. The shorter case allows for less powder movement in the case for more uniform ignition. In addition, a .308 can be chambered in a short action (read: stiffer) whereas a .30-06 must use a medium/long action. I don't shoot an '06, but I know really, really good brass for .308 practically grows off trees.

    The .30-06 holds an advantage over the .308 when shooting like 200+ grain bullets though due to the additional case capacity.

    That said, it's the injun, not the arrow. A good shooter behind an '06 will show up a mediocre shooter behind a .308 any day of the week and twice on Sundays.
     
  19. Outlaws

    Outlaws Member

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    :D
    I never said that. But you did make a blanket statement about cartridge design having nothing to do ever with accuracy that just isn't true.
     
  20. Grump

    Grump Member

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    **ON AVERAGE** (Individual specimens may vary)

    .308, in service rifles, whether rack grade or match-tuned, using USGI match ammo, shot groups about 10% smaller, whenever Uncle Sugar tested it.

    The results were also the same in their heavy-barrel machine-rest test barrels, whether during the 3,000-round period from new to peak accuracy, at peak (3,000-8,000 rounds, IIRC), or as accuracy declined (usually back to "new barrel" at @10,000).

    The only two rifles I owned in each caliber displayed the same general accuracy difference--scores did NOT change because I couldn't hold the X-ring... And the .30-06 couldn't *quite* hold the X-ring, but easily kept 'em all in the 10.
     
  21. Grump

    Grump Member

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    I read the American Rifleman article on the change from the 5-V to the 10-X target, and the causes were shooter scores being way too commonly 50-10V, or at least 50 with a few dropped Vs. It was happening over the entire course, not just at 1,000, for years, with shooters using the M1 Garand and that M72 Match ammo. That combo could be almost guaranteed to hold 2 MOA for any 10-shot string, though a few rifles were closer to 1.5 MOA or less.
     
  22. Ian Sean

    Ian Sean Member

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    The two cartridges are so ballistically similar, to argue the point is moot, and now pretty much just splitting hairs.

    All things being equal...ammo, rifle, shooter and shooting conditions....they would be a draw for the most part.

    As for current rifle offerings and ammo costs, I would opt for a .308 myself.
     
  23. RevolvingCylinder

    RevolvingCylinder Member

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    There isn't enough of a difference to even have this debate.
     
  24. Don't Tread On Me

    Don't Tread On Me Member

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    Hey guys, let's leave rifles out of the discussion here. The question is simple. Which one is more accurate?


    That means it would absolutely have to be some sort of characteristic of the cartridge itself. This has nothing to do with benchrest, highpower or any rifles or components other than the cartridges themselves.


    The main, and most significant difference between the .308 and the .30-06 is that the .308 has the shorter powder column. I've read that this is pretty much why .308 has a slight edge over the .30-06. Then again, others argue that long action cartridges exist that are even more accurate. I suppose it all depends on what it was designed for. If that is the true (I don't know for sure) then the debate changes entirely from .308 vs. .30-06 to short vs. long. That's another topic. That may be true, but the question still stands - which is more accurate - .308 or .30-06. The why can be argued separately with counter examples and exceptions to the rule.


    If there is some other characteristics of the cartridges that play a major role, we should look into that.


    Like someone else already said -- ALL THINGS BEING EQUAL ...which one is more accurate?


    I'd like to know and look forward to this thread getting more informative. I've always been under the impression .308 is more accurate, but if it isn't - I'd prefer a .30-06 for the increased power.
     
  25. U.S.SFC_RET

    U.S.SFC_RET Member

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    The 30-06 when loaded right can carry longer distances. much more versatile than the .308 caliber. I have been a 30-06 shooter since I could shoot and I am not about to change.
     
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