iamkris
Member
Maybe not but I don't like the odds (no matter how much ammo you've got) of a protracted firefight between me and a coupla my "rifleman" buds and an armor-reinforced infantry company.
.308 vs .223 Weight question
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Maybe not but I don't like the odds (no matter how much ammo you've got) of a protracted firefight between me and a coupla my "rifleman" buds and an armor-reinforced infantry company.
Frohickey
Member
In civilian uses of firearms, you are better served with a pistol/shotgun, or the .223. Helps in fending off the incoming looters when you are shooting down from your liquor store in the middle of SouthCentral LA
By the time a civilian would need to use the .223 or the .308, thats because you are now in the role of the militia, trying to stop an invasion, or augmenting what is left of the armed forces that just got its butt kicked by a billion screaming chinamen that was upgraded by technology that Clinton gave.
As to the weight question, its more of a military issue, since its better if a unit does not need to be resupplied as often. What is the standard gear of a sniper/scout team? Is it mostly food/water and optics?
By the time a civilian would need to use the .223 or the .308, thats because you are now in the role of the militia, trying to stop an invasion, or augmenting what is left of the armed forces that just got its butt kicked by a billion screaming chinamen that was upgraded by technology that Clinton gave.
As to the weight question, its more of a military issue, since its better if a unit does not need to be resupplied as often. What is the standard gear of a sniper/scout team? Is it mostly food/water and optics?
twoblink
Member
The snipers all go for the "one shot, one kill"..
and mostly done with 308's..
Carrying more water is the best arguement I have heard thus far..
and mostly done with 308's..
Carrying more water is the best arguement I have heard thus far..
Nice slam, Obiwan.....you are a master.
Even if true, I fail to see how a more open mind adds anything to a .35 caliber bullets diameter or weight. Chinese proverb offered as a general guideline.......It's advisable not to have so open a mind as to let one's brains fall out.
Even if true, I fail to see how a more open mind adds anything to a .35 caliber bullets diameter or weight. Chinese proverb offered as a general guideline.......It's advisable not to have so open a mind as to let one's brains fall out.
That's why I keep my earplugs in....so my brain stays put.
If bigger is better for you....then you are certainly well served.
I just worry about those that can't handle larger calibers well.
They may be better served with less gun and more control.
But the notion that size means everything
Sometimes pushes them to make poor decisions...for them anyway.
If bigger is better for you....then you are certainly well served.
I just worry about those that can't handle larger calibers well.
They may be better served with less gun and more control.
But the notion that size means everything
Sometimes pushes them to make poor decisions...for them anyway.
Sharpshooter223
Member
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Now listen, I'm all about the .223's but the .308 has the advantages of more knockdown power, more variety of bullet weights, more range, and it performs better in the wind. I have two great .223's and they both outshoot my brothers .308 but it still shoots about a 3/8 inch group at 100 yards so there isn't anything wrong with that. .223's are cheaper to shoot to. They both are great calibers just different uses.
twoblink
Member
Ahh..
but for urban combat, will a .223 do an engine block??
but for urban combat, will a .223 do an engine block??
confed sailor
Member
hole punchin
The US Navy still retains it M14 because:
A. Deck watch doesnt hump it in the boonies, just around the deck.
B. The Navy wants a round from a rifle that can handle some Anti-material responsiblities.
what it comes down to, the penetraition advantages of the 7.62X51 NATO outweight the portability issues. and the light weight of the Woodchuck 5.56 works to its disadvantage.
Also i like to belive that some Admiral follows Roy Ordirica's philosophy "Use a BIG GUN"
The US Navy still retains it M14 because:
A. Deck watch doesnt hump it in the boonies, just around the deck.
B. The Navy wants a round from a rifle that can handle some Anti-material responsiblities.
what it comes down to, the penetraition advantages of the 7.62X51 NATO outweight the portability issues. and the light weight of the Woodchuck 5.56 works to its disadvantage.
Also i like to belive that some Admiral follows Roy Ordirica's philosophy "Use a BIG GUN"
twoblink
Member
I think also, shooting from the deck of a ship, you start to realize, the .223 doesn't have enough reach.. Have you seen the size of a carrier??
556A2
Member
Standard M855 is going to penetrate futher than M80 7.62 Ball. Unless you start using an armor-piercing 7.62, the SS109 bullet will penetate better, the only disadvantage is a .22 caliber hole instead of a .30 caliber hole. This is one of the main reasons we dropped M193 to get M855.
Frohickey
Member
twoblink said
Not much meat on a carrier. Where is the vital zone at? Whats it weigh after field dressing?
Not much meat on a carrier. Where is the vital zone at? Whats it weigh after field dressing?
confed sailor
Member
carriers
a carrier is too tough and gamey, all the radiation from the reactors toughens it up, go with a destroyer if you want true sport ask any submariner.
a carrier is too tough and gamey, all the radiation from the reactors toughens it up, go with a destroyer if you want true sport
ask any submariner. 
Fatelvis
Member
SilverBullet.....I respect your opinion on penetration between the two calibers, because I am not familiar with official test results (which Im sure alot of you are), but I know in the hunting world, when you want more penetration, among other things,you up your bullet weight. Simple physics would tend to coax me into believing that of two projectiles, both being FMJ, the one that is 3 times heavier would stay in motion (keep penetrating) further than the lighter bullet. Does this sound logical?
556A2
Member
Fatelvis, the reason why M855 5.56x45mm penetrates better than M80 7.62x51mm is that M80 ball is a anti-personnel bullet where M855 is a semi-armor piercing bullet (SS109 is the actual bullet). Thats why M855 penetrates better than M80. Now if they were just regular FMJ bullets, the 7.62x51mm would penetrate better hands down.
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