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.308 Win - Pet loads?

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by RugerOldArmy, Feb 21, 2005.

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  1. RugerOldArmy

    RugerOldArmy Member

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    I'd appreciate some accuracy loads for, for a new CZ 550 Varmint if anybody has one.

    On hand, I've got:

    Powder: Varget, IMR 4064, IMR 4895
    Primers: CCI 200 Large Rifle and Winchester WLR
    Cases: Winchester
    Bullets: Sierra Matchking 168 Gr BTHP, Sierra Matchking 150 Gr BTHP, Nosler Ballistic tip 150 Gr BT

    This is a heavy 25.6" barrel mauser.

    I'm loading in a Dillon RL550B, so what meters well is preferred.

    Any help is appreciated.
     
  2. Wildalaska

    Wildalaska member

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    190 grain Sierra Match King, 41 grains RL 15, Fed 210M primer, OAL 2.8

    Duplicates Hirtenberger Match load at about 730MS

    Im gettin 5 shot one icnh groups

    WildwhatimplayingwithrightnowAlaska
     
  3. RugerOldArmy

    RugerOldArmy Member

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    WildIthoughtYouFolksInAlaskaUsed416RigbyForSquirrelsMyGod.308Win?,

    You know, I took an hour drive each way looking for Reloder 15 today, and settled on IMR 4064 as a consolation. I'll make a note, but need to use what I've got for the moment, having just sprung for the 550, scope, and rings.

    I'm just wondering what the BC is on that Matchking 190 Gr BTHP...

    You have a CZ 550 Varmint Wild? This thing seems sweet, set trigger, controlled feed and all.

    Thanks...

    RugerOldArmySubmitsThatThe1911IsTheUltimateHandgunNotTheBHP
     
  4. dakotasin

    dakotasin Member

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    rl-15 and varget are awfully close together...

    anyway, my target 308 load is varget, win cases, cci br-2 primers, and hornady 168 a-max.
     
  5. cracked butt

    cracked butt Member

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    I use 41.0 gr 4064 with a 168 smk, its a light recoiling and accurate load in my .308.
     
  6. larryw

    larryw Member

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    42.0gr of 4895 behind a 168gr SMK is the M852* load that is duplicated by Federal as "Gold Match", Black Hills, etc.. ;)

    *TM 43-0001-27; ARMY AMMUNITION DATA SHEETS; Page 11-30
     
  7. Black Snowman

    Black Snowman Member

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    My CZ 550 VL liked 186 gr Speer moly coated HPBT pushed by 42.2 gr of Varget in military brass with a CCI LR primer. I've since sold the gun but my A-Bolt Eclipse will get 100 yard clover leafs with that load. I don't have a longer range available to shoot at so I can't tell what long range performance looks like.

    I'm going to try the same combo with the Hornady equivilant bullet. I've really gotten to like the "bang for the buck" of the Hornady bullets lately. I might try some of the A-Max bullets next. Unless I'm trying new loads the gun is just boringly consistant and I can't find a reason to shoot it. ;)
     
  8. Richard.Howe

    Richard.Howe Member

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    Every time a "pet loads" post goes up, I'm surprised how many responders do not include either the OAL, or at least spacing from the lands, in their recipes. This is a pretty dang important dimension!

    I'd be curious to know these data points in future responses to this 308 thread.

    Thanks all!
    Rich
     
  9. Wildalaska

    Wildalaska member

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    Since I am usoing an SSG I am limited by mag lenth

    WildsofollowfactoryspecexactlyAlaska
     
  10. larryw

    larryw Member

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    Isn't the ideal COL determined by careful measurement of the individual rifle's chamber and leade and carefully working from there?

    WhatwildalaskathewiseoneSaid.
     
  11. 30Cal

    30Cal Member

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    As always, your milage may vary. Start low and work up.

    I do well with 41.5grs IMR4895, WLR, LC brass under a 168 at 2.825" (~10 thou off the lands). I use Nosler J4's and Sierra 168's interchangably.
     
  12. RugerOldArmy

    RugerOldArmy Member

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    Thanks for all the replies...a lot of good data.

    More endless questions:

    - Does IMR 4064 and/or IMR 4895 meter well? After getting some, I heard tell that it doesn't meter well in a Dillon. Dunno if this was a specific case, but this will be the first time I've tried extruded cylinder powders. Worst come to worst, I can experiment with Varget first (which I hear isn't a bad thing).

    - OAL: In general, is it save to assume, for most of the input posted, that OAL was 2.81" or so? I can chamber a dummy round, and see if any grooves are on the bullet. (Haven't loaded much rifle). My general pistol loading philosophy was to choose an OAL within MAX OAL, short of the lands, that was the longest which would feed reliably (and not below any min OAL load data).

    - Any reasonably safe primer substitutions if I start 10% or so low. I've got standard WLR and CCI Large Rifle primers?

    - Taper crimp. Any idea what is an appropriate case mouth OD with Winchester .308 brass?

    - Belling the case prior to seating? I assume I'd minimize this, especially with boattails?

    - Anybody have any 100-125 Gr Varmint favorite loads? There are some interesting ones in Speer 13. Dunno how well the little bullets would do in .308

    Thanks much. Dies should be here soon...
     
  13. cracked butt

    cracked butt Member

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    Don't crimp, it will only hurt accuracy, and it certainly isn't necessary in a bolt gun.

    If you debur and chamfer the mouths, you don't need to bell them. It can be slightly helpfull with flatbased bullets though, I use a Lyman 'M' die for this.


    I use WLRs and federal 210s interchangebly, but I don't use maximum loading either.


    If you force a bullet into the lands, it might pull back out of hte case when you extract it, giving you a false reading. In a lot of .308 short action rifles, the magazine length is too short to allow seating anywhere near the lands. If you want to single load the rifle, you will need to measure the distance to the lands. There are several methods, one involves marking and measuring a wooden dowel in the bore, I won't get into this one as I haven't used this method in 5 or 6 years and can't remember the specifics, the easy way is to get a Stoney Point tool with a matching .308 threaded case. Opinions will vary on this subject, but if I were going to use a progressive press, I would set the seating die to seat at least .020" off the lands, as there are tolerances in reloading and in the bullets themselves, and you don't want the bullets creeping too close to the lands.


    IMR4895 meters poorly and IMR 4064 meters worse. They work fine for me as I reload the cartridges on a single stage press and have a lot of practice with a RCBS uniflo measure. You might want to try H-4895
    as the grains are about 1/2 as long as in the IMR powders.
     
  14. RugerOldArmy

    RugerOldArmy Member

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    Thanks for the detailed reply full of good info Cracked Butt. A lot to think about. Looks like I should hand weigh any IMR loads, and take a look at the stoney-point tool.

    Not even a light taper crimp to avoid setback on recoil? I've crimped everything so far...
     
  15. cracked butt

    cracked butt Member

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    You'll have enough neck tension with the .308 that you don't have to worry about setback.
     
  16. Zak Smith

    Zak Smith Moderator Emeritus

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    155gr SMK, 46.5gr VARGET, then work up if you want
    2.800", Winchester cases, Rem #9.5
    duplicates MV of the Lapua 155gr factory load

    175gr SMK, 44.0gr VARGET, then work up if you want
    2.800",Winchester cases, Rem #9.5
    about 20fps slower than FGMM 175gr

    -z
     
  17. 30Cal

    30Cal Member

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    Don't crimp match bullets. If you have bullets setting back under recoil, then your sizing die is messed up.

    I don't bell rifle cases unless we're talking about cast lead bullets.

    As far as metering, IMR4895 does OK, 4064 is a little worse, but you shouldn't have trouble getting 1MoA loads straight out of the powder measure with either (even with about 0.3grs variation in charge weights). For grins, you may want to weigh one batch and compair the results on paper to a batch where you use the charges as they drop from the measure. The key to getting consistant charges out of the Dillon measure is to operate the press smoothly and consistantly. If you jar the press or do something out of sequence, expect that the next charge or two will be flakey (by about 0.5grs). I find it's best to run with only one round on the shellplate. I also get better consistancy if I tap the powder measure body with a knuckle prior to running a shell up into the powder die. I also keep the cylinder at least half full with powder. The only match loads that I weigh individually are the ones I use at 600yds.

    I recommend polishing the inside of the powder funnel (the one inside the powder die). This will keep powder from bridging (lodging) in there and dumping all over the bench.

    Ty
     
  18. Zak Smith

    Zak Smith Moderator Emeritus

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    You know what, I was throwing charges from my regular RCBS powder measure and getting 5-shot velocity standard deviations between 3 and 6 fps for two different loads. (VARGET)

    -z
     
  19. Dave R

    Dave R Member

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    FWIW, my Rem700 in .308 likes this Varget load. Its relatively inexpensive, using Speer's cheapest 150gr. bullet.

    Win brass
    CCI 200 primer
    47 gr. of Varget (MAX LOAD in Speer No.13--work up carefully)
    Speer 150gr. Hot Cor
    OAL 2.82. MAY BE TOO LONG for some rifles. Mine has a long throat and mag.

    CAUTION: The following post includes loading data right at currently published maximums for this cartridge. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, The High Road, nor the staff of THR assume any liability for any damage or injury resulting from use of this information.
     
  20. molonlabe

    molonlabe Member

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    Sierra 168gr BTHP behind Federal Match primers with 40gr of 3031. Deburr the flash hole. I am currently neck sizing for my bolt rifle only. OAL depends on your rifle. Weigh each charge. 40gr +/- 0

    PS for my bolt gun. The pressure curve may not be right for an M1A.
     
  21. RugerOldArmy

    RugerOldArmy Member

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    Thanks for the additional loads Zak, 30 Cal, Dave, Molonlabe.

    I'm still waiting for the toolplate etc. from Dillon.

    I did get 300 Hornady 110 Gr. VMAX on an impluse too. So I'm sitting here with 500 virgin cases, 3 kinds of powders, 2 kinds of primers, and four kinds of bullets....damn, I can't wait to load some test batches and get out on the range.

    My sons are amazed at the difference in shape between those 168 Gr SMKs and good ol .45 ACP hardball ;)
     
  22. larryw

    larryw Member

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    On the Dillon 550, the toolplate and locating pins for the 308 and 45 are the same and only the powder-die funnel gizmo was required.
     
  23. RugerOldArmy

    RugerOldArmy Member

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    LarryW, Good advice, and you're right. I did get a quick change kit too though, with another toolhead, powder measure, dies, toolhead holder, some new blue bins, extra primer tubes, etc.

    I was impressed that Dillon actually talked me out of the carbide rifle dies. They guy I talked to said they were a 'huge waste of money' and that 'I don't use 'em and I have a huge discount'. Great company.
     
  24. Richard.Howe

    Richard.Howe Member

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    My .308 Winchester deer load:

    Laupa brass (fire-formed :D ) neck-only sized w/ Redding dies and trimmed to 2.006"
    46.0 gr Varget
    150 gr. Barnes Triple Shock
    COAL = 2.830" +/- 0.005" (this corresponds to a hair less than 0.050" jump to lands)
    Federal 210M primer

    Mine run at ~2840 fps from a Steyr SBS Mountain (20" bbl), and generally hold within 1/2" to 5/8" at 100 yds.

    Using all the above-listed components yielded the following 3-shot group spreads while varying the Varget charge:

    43 gr: 1-1/4"
    44 gr: 1-1/2"
    45 gr: 0-7/8"
    46 gr: 0-1/2"
    47 gr: 1-3/4"
    48 gr: 2"+

    I reckon there's some truth in them thar barrel harmonics theories...which means that this load is meaningless for any rifle other than my own.

    I wonder if there's a second harmonic node out there above 50 gr? ...oh, wait, I value my intact head too much to find out.

    Best of luck!
    Rich
     
  25. RugerOldArmy

    RugerOldArmy Member

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    (in my best Homer Simpson voice): Woo Hoo

    The dies, quick change kit, etc. came today. The first reloads are created.

    For the moment I just created some light-ish cartridges to sight in the new rifle.

    Win cases.
    42.5 Gr Varget
    WLR primers
    168 Gr. Sierra BTHP
    2.795" OAL

    :)

    I'll work up some test batches later tonight.
     
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