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.31, .36 and .44 Ammo box labels

Discussion in 'Blackpowder' started by beczl, Nov 15, 2019.

  1. beczl

    beczl Member

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    Hi,

    In some times ago I created old .36 Belt/Navy ammo box labels that I want to share with anybody who can use it on their own private project.

    I tried to use an original font as much as I can, but a very few cases some fonts are not fully identical.

    These labels must be resized to fit a standard 70x35mm (2,75"x1,37") or 62x36mm (2,44x1,41") size boxes.

    I also working on to create some cap tin labels. Currently only one, the UMC available, but others under creation.

    Ammo_Navy_AW Spies.jpg Ammo_Navy_Colt.jpg Ammo_Navy_CS Laboratory.jpg Ammo_Navy_DC Sage.jpg Ammo_Navy_Hazard.jpg Ammo_Navy_Hazard_2.jpg Ammo_Navy_HW Mason.jpg Ammo_Navy_Johnson and Dow.jpg Ammo_Navy_Leet and Hall.jpg Ammo_Navy_Leet and Hall_2.jpg
     
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  2. beczl

    beczl Member

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    Additional labels.

    Ammo_Navy_Savage_3.jpg Ammo_Navy_WJ Sims_2.jpg Ammo_Navy_Merwin and Bray.jpg Ammo_Navy_Mount_Pleasant.jpg Ammo_Navy_R Chadwick.jpg Ammo_Navy_Savage.jpg Ammo_Navy_Savage_2.jpg Ammo_Navy_WJ Sims.jpg UMC_Cap_Green.jpg
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2019
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  3. Eyrie G. Dogg

    Eyrie G. Dogg Member

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    Those are so cool. Well done,
     
  4. LaneP

    LaneP Member

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    That's awesome and extremely generous of you to share. Thank you sir!

    A .44 version would be tremendous. Again I want to thank you for putting that much effort into these. They are beautiful.
     
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  5. beczl

    beczl Member

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    Well, I can create a .31 and .44 versions as well, sometimes they had the same design and layout as .36. So it takes less effort to create them. :)
     
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  6. noelf2

    noelf2 Member

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    These are really good! Thanks for sharing.
     
  7. TheOutlawKid

    TheOutlawKid Member

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    Mr.beczl...thats very generous of you to share with the community. Thank you very much. May i ask which ones are original or closest to original labels? Also do you have any examples of originals to go with some of the ones you shared?
     
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  8. beczl

    beczl Member

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    All of them are based on an original label. Only a very few cases I have to use different font types because I couldn’t have the original font. There were some fonts that were pretty close, but not fully identical. Also, these original labels stamped to the ammo package initially by copper plate or later with rubber stamper. Theses wore very quickly and their replacement not fully identical. Or in case if only some words need to be replaced using a different font. Also, the thickness of the label text letters depends on the stamper applying pressure. So, in fact, several original label variations have existed even within the same batch of ammo package.

    I attached some examples of the original and my labels.

    Example_Ammo_Navy_CS.jpg Example_Ammo_Navy_Hazard_2.jpg Example_Ammo_Navy_R Chadwick.jpg Example_Ammo_Navy_Savage.jpg Example_Ammo_Navy_Savage_2.jpg
     
  9. beczl

    beczl Member

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    As per your request here it is some .44 box label.

    Ammo_Army_AW Spies.jpg Ammo_Army_Colt.jpg Ammo_Army_DC Sage.jpg Ammo_Army_Hazard.jpg Ammo_Army_Hazard_2.jpg Ammo_Army_HW Mason.jpg Ammo_Army_HW Mason_2.jpg Ammo_Army_Johnson and Dow.jpg Ammo_Army_Johnson and Dow_2.jpg Ammo_Army_Mount_Pleasant.jpg
     
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  10. beczl

    beczl Member

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    .44 continued, and some .31 box label.

    Ammo_Army_Johnson and Dow_3.jpg Ammo_Army_Mount_Pleasant_2.jpg Ammo_Army_PR Murphy.jpg Ammo_Army_WJ Sims.jpg Ammo_Pocket_HW Mason.jpg Ammo_Pocket_HW Mason_2.jpg Ammo_Pocket_HW Mason_3.jpg Ammo_Pocket_HW Mason_4.jpg Ammo_Pocket_LeetandHall.jpg Ammo_Army_Vatervliet.jpg
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2019
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  11. LaneP

    LaneP Member

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    Thank you sir!

    The work you have done is spectacular. I've had a longtime fascination with the old cartridge boxes, even to one point in the pre-internet era of going to a local printing shop and having them reproduce a rubber stamp copy of the Hazard's cartridge label for me.

    Going back to the 80's I would use a manual typewriter to create labels. This past summer I acquired a Johnston and Dow repro mold and have been experimenting with various cartridge rolling methods and papers.

    These labels are just great and I personally appreciate the effort you have gone through to share them with others. Thanks again!

    dCRhMbzA1tVlGA8oBqwhgj9bVSTUYeY1YPfUpWCnNFoFLOyzWHIcN7EArlLTJH8tQJH44Euz6w3YZfrXDQ=w1190-h893-no.jpg
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2019
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  12. rdnktrkr

    rdnktrkr Member

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    Does the paper tear when compressed or is the paper flammable?
    The labels look great, they give me ideas about printing out some for my reloads in 30 cal ammo cans just using my name and figure out a name for my reloading room
     
  13. Loyalist Dave

    Loyalist Dave Member

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    I find it fascinating that they sold the cartridges by the single cylinder full. I also found labels for 5 cartridges too, and for 12. I guess one might only need one full cylinder for a while ??

    LD
     
  14. LaneP

    LaneP Member

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    The cartridges are loaded whole and can either be rolled from nitrated paper or thin cigarette type paper that is consumed when fired. The percussion cap flame has no problem igniting the powder through the rear of the cartridge. It is my understanding that loading percussion revolvers from loose bullets and a powder flask was not as common as loading them using prefabricated cartridges.
     
  15. beczl

    beczl Member

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    They sold and packed the revolver cartridges in various formats, such as:

    .36 Belt/Navy Colt's Cartridge factory prices from 1853.
    Bullet 80 grain round 12pcs : 6 cent
    Bullet 160 grain ogival 12pcs : 12 cent
    Gunpowder 1 pound (7000 grain): 1 $
    Tinfoil Waterproof Cartridge ogival 1pcs: 2,3 cent
    Combustible Envelope Cartridge round 1pcs: 1,5 cent
    Combustible Envelope Cartridge ogival 1pcs: 2 cent
    Seamless Skin Cartridge round 1pcs: 1,2 cent
    Seamless Skin Cartridge ogival 1pcs: 1,7 cent
    Seamless Skin Cartridge ogival: 5-6pcs per box: 17 cent
    Combustible Envelope Cartridge ogival: 5-6pcs per box: 20 cent
    Combustible Envelope Cartridge ogival 1000pcs (50pcs per box): 18 $
    Eley Cap 50pcs per tin: 40 cent
    Eley Cap 100pcs per tin: 60 cent
    Eley Cap 200pcs per tin: 1 $


    Cartridges are can be made by normal or combustible paper, skin (animal intestine) and tin foil (water-resistant). Carry bullets and powder flask was common before the American Civil War broke out, then anybody using prefabricated cartridges.
     
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  16. beczl

    beczl Member

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    A few British box labels. Not a well-known fact is the English cartridge makers have a strong connection with Confederate State Arms. Unfortunately, only a few of these boxes are survived the era and pop up on auctions.

    Interesting there is no mention of bore or calibre on London made individual cartridge boxes label. Their caliber or bore only written on their multipacks paper, which multipack contains ten boxes of a cartridge.

    Ammo_Army_Unknown.jpg Ammo_Pocket_WJ Sims.jpg Ammo_Navy_Eley.jpg Ammo_Navy_JM_hayes.jpg Ammo_Pocket_Broux.jpg Ammo_Army_Bartholow.jpg Ammo_Navy_Bartholow.jpg Ammo_Pocket_Bartholow.jpg Ammo_Pocket_Bartholow_2.jpg
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2019
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  17. .38 Special

    .38 Special Member

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    If you ever feel like starting a thread to talk about what you have learned so far I would eagerly read it.
     
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  18. LaneP

    LaneP Member

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    Will do. When the weather breaks I have another round of testing and will definitely report results.
     
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  19. TheOutlawKid

    TheOutlawKid Member

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    I make my carts with no taper. Theres no tearing of the paper ...if find that with a highly tapered cartridge that you dont ger an even burn of the paper in most cases due to the paper getting crumbled up inside the chamberm. I use one layer of thin cigarette paper (RAW brand since they are very thin but strong and are brownish tan colored, but other brands work fine) or curling paper, or brown coffee filter paper. For glue i use only nitrocellulose glue (DUCO cement glue brand) as it burns up completely where other glues will cause the glued area not to burn sometimes especially at the nipple end of the cartridge. I also use a single layer of thin rice paper (used for stuffing gift bags etc) at the nipple end of the cartridge so that i know which end to put in the cylinder first due to i also put a lupe disc in my paper carts. There usually is no bullet on them and i choose the bullet or ball. Heres a pic.. 20191009_101246.jpg 20191009_101351.jpg
     
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  20. TheOutlawKid

    TheOutlawKid Member

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    You can see the thin lube disc in the cartridge if you look slowly. Its separated from the powder by a wax paper disc layer and topped with a cardboard disc which helps tightly seal the barrel from gas cutting the bullet. The two cartridges below without a bullet attached have a large lube disc ...i no longer make them with such a large lube disc due to its unecessary to lube such a short barrel and it takes up a lot of powder space. Also you can see the bottom of the cartridge and how i place the red paper discs that are a thin layer that the percussion cap can easily burn through. One cartridge shows the cardboard disc topping off the cartridge before being sealed up. The bullets used are kaido conicals in .36 cal and 140 grains and 20 or 21 grains of powder. These cartridges slide in easily and perfectly into the chambers requiring no taper and leaving no air gaps or crumpled up paper. I never have unburned paper or smoldering peices left after shooting...the nitrocellulose glue helps with that. Im also experimenting soon with nitrocelluose clear coat on the paper so that they burn better and also seal from moisture 20190811_213314.jpg 20190811_213324.jpg 20190811_213711.jpg
     
  21. LaneP

    LaneP Member

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    Those really look great. Thanks for sharing your expertise and experience.
     
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  22. beczl

    beczl Member

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    Some additional .28 Pocket, .36 Navy and Police and .44 Army box labels.

    Ammo_Navy_HW Mason_2.jpg Ammo_Navy_HW Mason_3.jpg Ammo_New_Pocket_Colt.jpg Ammo_Navy_R Chadwick_2.jpg Ammo_Police_Colt.jpg Ammo_Army_DC Sage_2.jpg
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2019
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  23. TheOutlawKid

    TheOutlawKid Member

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    Thanks LaneP...and i dont mind sharing.
     
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  24. beczl

    beczl Member

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    Here it is an excel sheet that contains the most common cartridge boxes dimension, type, and main characteristics. At the last column on the sheet I made a reference which points to one of mine cartridge labels.
     

    Attached Files:

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  25. LaneP

    LaneP Member

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    Thanks to both @beczl and @TheOutlawKid, great stuff and I've gotten some great ideas on my next go-round of cartridge rolling. The winters here make outdoor shooting pretty miserable but once spring returns it will be black powder season and threads like this really keep the motivation up. Thanks!
     
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