.31, .36 and .44 Ammo box labels

[TheOutlawKid]

Oh also forgot to mention that rice paper isnt the only option to seal the bottom of the cartridge. Tissue/toilet paper can be used, so can the same paper you are using to make the cartridges. I also like to smear a layer of Duco cement glue on the bottom ( the part of the cartridge that gets hit with the flame of the percussion cap) since it gives it stiffness but also helps it burn entirely since its nitrocellulose glue. You can also use a needle to poke small pin holes to help the percussion caps flame hit the powder directly, although its not really necessary.

 

[beczl]

Mr.Beczl, may i ask how you came across this vast collection of labels? These are a gold mine...did it take long to acquire all of these? Im actually thinking about making some cap tins with some of your labels. Thanks again!

The Story is started a long time ago when I want to collect information about the Colt 1851 Navy. Since I bought a Navy I want to create some cap tins and cartridge boxes, but not able to find any good replica label, only some very bad and fake ones. So I started to collect information about cartridge and caps manufacturers to I able to create a good cartridge and cap tin labels for my collection. The hardest part is to collect good reference pictures about cap tins and cartridge packages. The easiest is to create these labels in photoshop. It doesn't take so long, a maximum of 3-4hr per label, depends on its complexity.

By the way, I have good reference pictures of 164 different cap tin design, I planned to make all of them.

 

[TheOutlawKid]

Wow that is some dedication to the art. Well im glad you dedicated your time, effort, and talent to recreate these labels and provide them to us. Its nice of you to share your work.

 

[beczl]

Wow that is some dedication to the art. Well im glad you dedicated your time, effort, and talent to recreate these labels and provide them to us. Its nice of you to share your work.

Thank you. I'm happy you liked it. Well, also I dealing with not only labels but have data when these cap tins are made. I attached an excel sheet that contains the biggest Colt revolver cap manufacturers. So if you want to display a specific era set, it helps to find a correct era cap tin label.

 

[.38 Special]

Such a wonderful thread. I have been inspired and am on my way to experimenting with it all. I have not, however, been able to find appropriate boxes. Does anyone know where to find the little (.5x1.25x2.25, more or less) cardboard or chipboard boxes?

 

[beczl]

Such a wonderful thread. I have been inspired and am on my way to experimenting with it all. I have not, however, been able to find appropriate boxes. Does anyone know where to find the little (.5x1.25x2.25, more or less) cardboard or chipboard boxes?

If you are not able to find such cardboard boxes I attached a box template. You can print it on an A4 size thick cardboard paper, cut and glue it, then you can apply any of my cartridge labels onto it.

 

[beczl]

Today cap tins..

 

[beczl]

A few more.

 

[LaneP]

If you are not able to find such cardboard boxes I attached a box template. You can print it on an A4 size thick cardboard paper, cut and glue it, then you can apply any of my cartridge labels onto it.

Mr. Beczl your contributions are greatly appreciated.

 

[beczl]

Not at all.

Interesting cap tin label from 1878. When the Turkish Russian war is broke out 1877, both sides start to buy any available guns and ammunition. Colt sold 6000 Navy through Colt London Agency and other 3000 Navy through respective Belgian dealers to Turkey.

It also sold 1.350.000 .36 cartridges made by Colt Ammo Work, and 2.100.000 caps made by F.Joyce England. Even though a relatively high producing number, very few cartridges, and cap tins witches made to the Ottoman Empire known nowadays.

 

[beczl]

 

[TheOutlawKid]

I like the green eley bros 100 caps label. Im thinking about making myself a tin with that label

 

[beczl]

I like the green eley bros 100 caps label. Im thinking about making myself a tin with that label

I like all older/vintage style tins. The hardest part is to find such a tiny tin. I searched across the internet, local stores, drugstores and so on, but nothing...

 

[TheOutlawKid]

Mr.beczl...look into websites that sell containers for lip balms, homemade lotions etc. I got some that are intended for homemade "hand balms". Its an empty tin.

 

[beczl]

I know that. But most of these tins have a screw cap. I found only a few suitable which have a normal cap, but most of them have a too big diameter. So I still looking...I found this Chinese company, I sent them a note but they only sell in bulk, 10.000pcs minimum...

By the way, caps label that I made today.

 

[beczl]

 

[beczl]

One unique label for a small gunpowder tin. It had the same size as cap tins. 40x45mm (1,57"x1,77")

 

[TheOutlawKid]

I never knew they sold the primer powder in tins. Are those labels replicas of real products? Do you have a picture of the real label? Quite facinating

 

[TheOutlawKid]

Outlaw Kid. that was an outstanding visual/narrative explanation! I have never seen the paper cartridges made in that manner and I have been researching this for awhile now. Everyone else had made them with a tapered mandrel and that is the method I've used up to this point. I was intrigued by your explanation of how the straight walled cartridges leave little to no residue and will be eager to reproduce them using your procedure. Only thing I lack is a set of pin gauges which I have been meaning to acquire and I see how they make a big difference.
Thank you sincerely for the time and effort required to put this together!

Mr.navy six 2, forgot to mention the pin guages i got for $1.95-$4.50 each on amazon. I recommend going atleast .007-.010 smaller than your chamber bore. My chamber bores measure .366-.368 on stock cylinders and .375 on my custom cylinders that i had reamed to be .003 over barrell bore size. The .360 pin gauge i use for the thicker TOPS and Bugler and coffee filter paper carts and the .362 pin gauge i use for thinner paper such as the RAW rolling papers. They fit perfectly snug yet smoothly enter on all my cylinders no matter it has stock chamber size or the custom .375 chamber size. So i recommend meaauring your chamber cylinders and buying the appropriate size pin gauge thats just a bit smaller in size. Buy a few and choose the one that best makes a snug but easy fitting cartridge.

 

[beczl]

I never knew they sold the primer powder in tins. Are those labels replicas of real products? Do you have a picture of the real label? Quite facinating

Yes, all of these replica labels are based on real old tins.

For example F. E. Joyce gun powder tin:

 

[arcticap]

My favorite label is the United States Army Caps, UMC Co. Bridgeport, Conn in post #65.
Would those be #11 caps for revolvers?
The original color is the light shade of tan that you reproduced?

Being a Connecticut native, I enjoy seeing the old Connecticut labels.
The ones that say "250 improved brass UMC Bridgeport, Conn" in Post #61 reminds me of the Connecticut city of Waterbury that's 30 miles away from Bridgeport and is known as the "Brass City".
Makes me wonder if that's where the brass came from.

 

[beczl]

My favorite label is the United States Army Caps, UMC Co. Bridgeport, Conn in post #65.
Would those be #11 caps for revolvers?
The original color is the light shade of tan that you reproduced?

Yes. UMC musket cap tins always have written 'Musket' word on its top. With no musket designation, caps made for revolvers and could hold #10 or #11 caps. The small paper with correct size designation was glued on the bottom of the tin. This tin produced in three colors. White, Vanilla and light Orange. Later repros (fakes) in white, blue and orange.

Being a Connecticut native, I enjoy seeing the old Connecticut labels.
The ones that say "250 improved brass UMC Bridgeport, Conn" in Post #61 reminds me of the Connecticut city of Waterbury that's 30 miles away from Bridgeport and is known as the "Brass City".
Makes me wonder if that's where the brass came from.

Yes, absolutely. Connecticut was the heart of gun-making in that era.

 

[arcticap]

I began to wonder why some UMC tins also have Hicks stamped on the label.
Searching some images brought up the info below and photos of Hick's brass cap tins.


https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/brass-hicks-central-fire-primers-139479228

"Walter Hicks established a cap manufactory at 55 Cliff St., New York City in 1854 until 1856. He moved to 52 Beekman St. Haverstraw, N.Y in 1857.
In 1857, Walter Hicks and Frank Frary jointly formed the American Flask and Cap Company in Waterbury, Ct.
In the late 1860's, The Waterbury Brass Co. became the owners.
They kept the Am F&C Co name until 1869-70.
American Brass Company eventually took over the company, which was then overtaken by Anaconda.
The cap manufacturing portion of the business was sold off to Remington/Winchester circa 1898.
They kept using the Hicks name for another decade or two. --->>> https://uniondb.com/products/hicks-percussion-casp-tin-bul-152

This tin below seems to be a hodgepodge of caps, a few brass and some copper.
I wanted to see what brass caps looked like
Thanks for helping me to learn something new today!



Here's another Hicks brass tin that' has a slightly different design.


https://www.tias.com/brass-hicks-central-fire-primers-percussion-cap-tin-753162.html

Here's what's inside one of those 2nd style of Hicks brass cap tins that was sold on eBay.
Wow it sold for $102.50 in Sept., 2019!


https://www.ebay.com/itm/Hicks-Central-Fire-Civil-War-Percussion-Cap-Primer-Box-/264452684715?_trkparms=aid=1110001&algo=SPLICE.SIM&ao=2&asc=20160323102634&meid=254c942554714ebf98abe9e837bcbd70&pid=100623&rk=2&rkt=6&sd=312540050852&itm=264452684715&pmt=0&noa=1&pg=2047675&_trksid=p2047675.l2557&nma=true&si=viF7dOTgs92%2FQLXO9ClRlIoLH0E%3D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc

 

[beczl]

This info about Hicks already in the excel file that I posted previously.

Hicks name/patent used by the following companies in relation with a revolver caps.
Walter Hick Cap Manufactury New York 1854-1856
American Flask & Cap Co. New York 1857-1869
Waterbury Brass Co. Waterbury 1869-1870
American Brass Co. Waterbury 1870-1898
The Union Metallic Cartridges Co. Bridgeport 1866-1902

By the way, the last Hick cap tin which was sold on eBay seems contained a french caps from Gaupillat et Delion S. A. (1870-1884) and not made by Hicks.

 

[Navy Six 2]

Mr.navy six 2, forgot to mention the pin guages i got for $1.95-$4.50 each on amazon. I recommend going atleast .007-.010 smaller than your chamber bore. My chamber bores measure .366-.368 on stock cylinders and .375 on my custom cylinders that i had reamed to be .003 over barrell bore size. The .360 pin gauge i use for the thicker TOPS and Bugler and coffee filter paper carts and the .362 pin gauge i use for thinner paper such as the RAW rolling papers. They fit perfectly snug yet smoothly enter on all my cylinders no matter it has stock chamber size or the custom .375 chamber size. So i recommend meaauring your chamber cylinders and buying the appropriate size pin gauge thats just a bit smaller in size. Buy a few and choose the one that best makes a snug but easy fitting cartridge.

Thanks for the information, Outlaw Kid. Will start off with your recommendations of .007-.010 smaller than chamber mouth size and will probably stick with the hair curling papers as I have a good supply. I already ordered an entire pin gauge set(.250-.500) and it arrived yesterday. As previously mentioned I have been meaning to acquire these gauges but you finally gave me a reason! Got that one through my wife as an early Christmas gift!! See what you started! ! Almost all of my cap and ball guns are Ubertis and so far the 36 chamber mouths are running .372-.373 and the 44s are .449 pretty consistently. My one older Pietta 36 measured .367. I have four Euroarms Rogers & Spencer 44s that I haven't measured yet. Just waiting for the Duco cement to arrive as I couldn't find any locally.
Speaking of the Duco cement, earlier you mentioned experimenting with some type of a mixture containing this to possibly coat the entire paper cartridge , if I understood you correctly. Any information gained through your related experiments would be greatly appreciated if you feel inclined to share it here. As I am now retired I feel blessed to have the time for for this experimentation myself. I shoot at Cowboy matches and at least weekly using only black powder in both paper and metallic cartridge form. It sure is keeping me busy!
Anyway, thanks again and hope everyone following this thread has a Merry Christmas!--boldog karasconyi unnepeket Mr. Beczl (I think I got that correct?)