32 acp for self defense?
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Zonamo
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OhioPaints said:
So how do you get a firearm into a locked glove compartment or container in plain sight if it is a felony to handle the firearm while in the car?
From what I've read, still beats Illinois by a long shot.
yongxingfreesty
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put all 8 rounds into him and you will be ok. to tell you the truth, i dont even want to be hit with a .17hmr
I dunno, the opposite would make more sense. In a very close encounter, you want a .454 Casull at least. But if you're 50 feet away and behind a bulletproof barrier, shooting through a very narrow firing port, .32 is perfectly adequate.
Whirlwind06
Member
You levitate it into the glove box.
The felony for handling a firearm is when you are in official contact with a LEO. Traffic stop, check point etc.
I have yet to be in official contact with a LEO since I got my CHL (Just jinxed myself I'm sure) But I figure if I get stopped by LEO. I'll roll down the window, turn off the car and place both of your hands on the steering wheel and tell the officer that I'm a CHL holder and that I am armed. And wait for instructions.
That's pretty much what my CHL instructor told us (a LEO). And what the little hand book they gave us states.
robert dennis crowson
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32 for carry
The 32 auto is like anyother handgun round. You must be able to hit the head, heart or pelvis to stop someone cold . Size of projectile in this case does not matter. Type of projectiles do , but only to inflict wounds. A 177 pellet air fired to the head will also stop anyone , providing it passes through the skull.
The 32 auto is like anyother handgun round. You must be able to hit the head, heart or pelvis to stop someone cold . Size of projectile in this case does not matter. Type of projectiles do , but only to inflict wounds. A 177 pellet air fired to the head will also stop anyone , providing it passes through the skull.
robert dennis crowson
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By the way do not ever pull one unless it goes off
I'm not saying that a .32 cannot stop someone, but considering the more powerful alternitives that can be found in the same sized gun, for the same price why settle for .32? Not to mention .32 is not cheap. Surprisingly neither is .25 caliber!??
I believe there is no point in going below .380. .380 pocket guns are still very small. Keep in mind that a .380 is 9mm lite. And you want to get a .32? I just don't see the benefits.
I believe there is no point in going below .380. .380 pocket guns are still very small. Keep in mind that a .380 is 9mm lite. And you want to get a .32? I just don't see the benefits.
PRM
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.32 Auto
Got 2, One is a North American Arms Guardian, the other is a Walther PP. Both have functioned flawlessly on frequent trips to the range with all types of ammo. There are days and certain activities in which the smaller gun suits my personal needs. I hope I never have to use either - but, should the need arise, I figure it will be close quarters, and 6-8 rounds placed in the right area will solve the problem (less rounds if the threat stops). Having said that, if I knew something was imminent (somebody kicking in my front door) I would grab something bigger; a 12 gauge shotgun, or a .45 in descending order. I in no way feel out-gunned with a .32 when running to the gas station, Walmart or out to eat.
I did look at the North American Arms in .380 - but it is bulkier and for what I wanted the .32 for, it gives less of a visible print in a trouser pocket. I've got a .38 Detective Special that fills that need when I wear a belt or ankle holster .
An old Sheriff was attending a town BBQ when a liberal lady saw that he was wearing a sidearm. She asked, "Sheriff, are you expecting trouble? I see you have a pistol." The Sheriff replied, "No-maam, if I was expecting trouble I would have brought my rifle."
Got 2, One is a North American Arms Guardian, the other is a Walther PP. Both have functioned flawlessly on frequent trips to the range with all types of ammo. There are days and certain activities in which the smaller gun suits my personal needs. I hope I never have to use either - but, should the need arise, I figure it will be close quarters, and 6-8 rounds placed in the right area will solve the problem (less rounds if the threat stops). Having said that, if I knew something was imminent (somebody kicking in my front door) I would grab something bigger; a 12 gauge shotgun, or a .45 in descending order. I in no way feel out-gunned with a .32 when running to the gas station, Walmart or out to eat.
I did look at the North American Arms in .380 - but it is bulkier and for what I wanted the .32 for, it gives less of a visible print in a trouser pocket. I've got a .38 Detective Special that fills that need when I wear a belt or ankle holster .
An old Sheriff was attending a town BBQ when a liberal lady saw that he was wearing a sidearm. She asked, "Sheriff, are you expecting trouble? I see you have a pistol." The Sheriff replied, "No-maam, if I was expecting trouble I would have brought my rifle."
I have read numerous reports indicating that .380 and .32ACP have reasonably similar (bad) ballistics so you know, maybe it's a wash. Both are probably inadequate and 9mm is far better by most accounts. I am not disparaging any one report or denigrating any source of information, just saying on average, the consensus is that 9mm is adequate, and then there is debate about .380 and .32ACP effectiveness.
Now if any of you have shot a P32 and a P3AT or LCP back to back, you might be more inclined to go with the .32ACP. For me, I found the recoil of the .380s in that frame size to make follow-up shots nearly impossible with any accuracy because after the first shot, the gun finds itself all sideways and funky in my hand and I have to reset my grip before the next shot. OTOH the P32 is controllable (if not fun to shoot) for the entire mag straight in a row as long as you don't mess up the trigger reset.
So if I had to pick between two guns both with questionable rounds, one of which is hard to keep on target for two shots in a row and the other is much more controllable, I'll take control over the marginal power improvement every time.
Now if any of you have shot a P32 and a P3AT or LCP back to back, you might be more inclined to go with the .32ACP. For me, I found the recoil of the .380s in that frame size to make follow-up shots nearly impossible with any accuracy because after the first shot, the gun finds itself all sideways and funky in my hand and I have to reset my grip before the next shot. OTOH the P32 is controllable (if not fun to shoot) for the entire mag straight in a row as long as you don't mess up the trigger reset.
So if I had to pick between two guns both with questionable rounds, one of which is hard to keep on target for two shots in a row and the other is much more controllable, I'll take control over the marginal power improvement every time.
The goal when one has to resort to deadly force of the threat of deadly force in self defense is to end the threat to ones life and health regardless of the outcome. If the threat is ended with no harm to either the intended victim or the attacker, so much the better.
The realities of firearms being used for self defense are that most of the time the display of the firearm ends the confrontation and the gun isn't even fired.
When the gun is fired usually no one is even hit and when a person is hit they are seldom killed.
In this context caliber, ammo, etc is probably not as important as we make it.
Now if your particular situation requires you to shoot someone the .32 isn't the most effective and it may take more than one shot. With any round its all about where a person is hit and with what as to how effectively they're physically stopped. While some say to use ball ammo for penetration statistical studies have shown that HP ammo, specifically Winchester Silver tips to be more effective when someone is actually shot, personally I'd play the odds and use HP's but to each their own.
The realities of firearms being used for self defense are that most of the time the display of the firearm ends the confrontation and the gun isn't even fired.
When the gun is fired usually no one is even hit and when a person is hit they are seldom killed.
In this context caliber, ammo, etc is probably not as important as we make it.
Now if your particular situation requires you to shoot someone the .32 isn't the most effective and it may take more than one shot. With any round its all about where a person is hit and with what as to how effectively they're physically stopped. While some say to use ball ammo for penetration statistical studies have shown that HP ammo, specifically Winchester Silver tips to be more effective when someone is actually shot, personally I'd play the odds and use HP's but to each their own.
robert dennis crowson
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Once again, its not wise to show a firearm until you use it. To produce it without the use of it may well cost someone their life. They can be disarmed or attacked in this case. One must set the fate of pulling it into auto use of it, or dont even think about pulling it. A fast response , rapid control fire is an option with a 32 auto, a real point maker. If he does not stop well its time to run. But for sure you tried.
PRM
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Lot of Opinions
This type of thread is always interesting. It shows how far apart and intolerant we are divided in our love for the sport and use of firearms. You have one extreme that feels the need to lecture and quote whatever sources (biased or not) that backs their position against a particular calibre, gun, or method of carry. Then you have others who have made a personal choice and for them that choice works.
Opinions are just that - we all have them - we are all adults. Seems we should be happy someone else is exercising their Second Amendment Rights instead of polarizing our attitudes. Just because someone likes a particular gun that I don't have - does not make them necessarily wrong, stupid, or asking for trouble. I grew up in a rural area where every farmer had a .22 rifle in their truck. They took care of about everything they needed to shoot with that.
As far as being effective for home defense- I like shotguns, but they don't work for ccw. Guess I will be forced to choose something smaller and less conspicuous.
This type of thread is always interesting. It shows how far apart and intolerant we are divided in our love for the sport and use of firearms. You have one extreme that feels the need to lecture and quote whatever sources (biased or not) that backs their position against a particular calibre, gun, or method of carry. Then you have others who have made a personal choice and for them that choice works.
Opinions are just that - we all have them - we are all adults. Seems we should be happy someone else is exercising their Second Amendment Rights instead of polarizing our attitudes. Just because someone likes a particular gun that I don't have - does not make them necessarily wrong, stupid, or asking for trouble. I grew up in a rural area where every farmer had a .22 rifle in their truck. They took care of about everything they needed to shoot with that.
As far as being effective for home defense- I like shotguns, but they don't work for ccw. Guess I will be forced to choose something smaller and less conspicuous.
pilot teacher
Member
I'd consider the size of the possible assailant, if he/she is drunk or drugged, and if there are more than one. If the thug is the size of a Buccaneer line backer, you'll not stop him with a 32 or .380. You possibly might stop him with a 9mm IF you got a shot to the head! But in the heat of the action you would be shooting at the center of body mass,
Saw a video taken by police where they tried to stop a skinny punk who shot at them. He was walking away pretty fast. They put 8 9mm holes in him and he kept going quite a distance before he even stumbled. Goes to show the combination of drugs and adrenalin can keep a person going despite lots of holes in his body.
Also, remember the war in the Phillipines when they couldn't be stopped with a 38. They emptied their guns into them and the opponent still buried a machete into their head. When the soldiers were issued .45's, one shot shot took them down.
My personal concealed carry is a Taurus PT145 loaded with Federal 230gr. Hydrashocks. I believe the 45 is the best self defense weapon around. Even today our guys in Iraq prefer the 45.
Saw a video taken by police where they tried to stop a skinny punk who shot at them. He was walking away pretty fast. They put 8 9mm holes in him and he kept going quite a distance before he even stumbled. Goes to show the combination of drugs and adrenalin can keep a person going despite lots of holes in his body.
Also, remember the war in the Phillipines when they couldn't be stopped with a 38. They emptied their guns into them and the opponent still buried a machete into their head. When the soldiers were issued .45's, one shot shot took them down.
My personal concealed carry is a Taurus PT145 loaded with Federal 230gr. Hydrashocks. I believe the 45 is the best self defense weapon around. Even today our guys in Iraq prefer the 45.
JR47
Member
Not exactly true. The .45 had no discernible effect on the drugged natives. Even the .30-40 Krag round failed to effect reliable stops before the shooter was injured/killed.
Remember the environment here. Most attacks were from ambush, and close at hand. The attackers expected to die, and were drugged to the gills. A cannon was about all that could be expected to render them neutralized immediately.
The military never really liked the .38 caliber. They used the 1904 Thompson-LaGarde tests to "prove" that a .45 caliber round imparted more momentum when fired into hanging cadavers. Combined with the search for a semi-auto pistol, the result was the .45 ACP.
Look into the actual combat casualties on the Insurrection. They were really very low considering the state of medicine available, and the health problems of that area. More soldiers died of disease than were killed by the enemy.
Loosedhorse
member
My Seecamp .32 is the gun I carry when I can't carry any other. In some ways, that makes it the most important gun I own.
But it will never be the most comforting, or my favorite. (Think me, Seecamp, and big, angry dog comin' at me--it's not looking good for any of us!)
But it will never be the most comforting, or my favorite. (Think me, Seecamp, and big, angry dog comin' at me--it's not looking good for any of us!)
orionengnr
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If you ever get the opportunity, shoot a P32 and a P3AT back to back.
The P32 feels like a cap gun in comparison.
Knowing (as we do) that the force imparted to the shooter relates directly to the force imparted to the shootee...I can only conclude that the 32 is a very anemic round compared to the .380, which many consider to be either barely adequate or inadequate.
Given my experience, I will never carry a 32, especially given that a P3AT or LCP of the same size/weight is considerably more powerful.
In summary, the .32 is better than a very small sharp stick. But not much better.
The P32 feels like a cap gun in comparison.
Knowing (as we do) that the force imparted to the shooter relates directly to the force imparted to the shootee...I can only conclude that the 32 is a very anemic round compared to the .380, which many consider to be either barely adequate or inadequate.
Given my experience, I will never carry a 32, especially given that a P3AT or LCP of the same size/weight is considerably more powerful.
In summary, the .32 is better than a very small sharp stick. But not much better.
I have a keltec .32 acp and I know that it is not the best self defense weapon available. I use mine primarily as a walk the dog firearm. While I am out at 1 or 2 am at the edge of the yard it just gives me a little more comfort when my dog stops abrubtly or growls at something over in the dark. I have practiced with it and I know that I can hit what I shoot at at 10 yards. Many say that is not that far it is far enough for me to empty the gun get away and grab the 12 gauge (just in case, while someone my wife or neighbors calls 911 to report gunshots.
JR47
Member
While the pistols in question are close, they aren't the same. I'd also like to find some of that 250 ft/lb ammo from an under 3" barrel.
I do have some .32 ACP ammo that factory specs at:
32APHP 60 gr. JHP 1100 fps, 200 ft/lbs.
The same ammo, in .380:
380APHP 90 gr. JHP 1030 fps, 205 ft/lbs.
I would find 5 ft/lbs hard to differentiate in the guns in question.
Back when people were actually tracking results, the .32 ACP and the .380 ACP appeared to be equal in JHP form.
What's the difference? It's only a matter of time before some nimrod wanders into the thread with a pompous proclamation that "people who carry calibers below (add today's favorite) are just placing convenience over true self-defense."
The round was good egnough for Europe
Hello everyone. I am new to THR and have been doing a LOT of reading on the boards. What a wonderful website! I know its an old thread, but I thought I could add something. I spent some time stationed in the military over in Germany many moons ago. I had the wonderful opportunity to meet quite a few of the local police officers and detectives of the area I lived in. In many cases it happened to be at the local bistro's drinking our favorite beverage of choice... Any ways we used to talk a lot about their transition from the Walther PP's in .32 ACP to what they dubbed as the "newer" and "more effective" H&K P7's in 9mm. To cut to the chase I was surprised to find that the older detective "plain cloths" officers who worked the streets years ago as uniformed officers preferred the .32 ACP over the P7's. When asked why, and I am gonna paraphrase from memory off of what THEY told me , they told me these 5 main reasons are why the .32 was more desirable for them. 1) They told me the Walther was a tad bit lighter then the P7. 2) They were completely reliable guns that they were very familiar with, and knew it's capabilities and limitations. 3) There was hardly any recoil felt and follow up shots were very controllable. 4) They hardly ever even displayed their guns let alone shot a bad guy. So in most cases when they did have to draw on those rare occasions the perp gave up because he simply seen that a police officers gun was pointed at him and ready to shoot him. 5) I those rear occasions when an officer was involved in a shooting, one shot hitting the perp ended the situation (notice they did not say "instantly ended the perps ability to continue to fight"). And they clarified this further with me. Not saying the perp was stopped by the impact of the round entering his body, but the physiological factor that told the perp inside his mind 1-2 seconds after he had been shot that he in fact had just been shot by the police with A GUN. And in most cases after the perp realized they had been shot they typically went into shock. These were their words so please don't bash me for them. I just thought these were beneficial comments that would help people make sound choices in choosing a .32 as a self defense round. Remember the German and other European countries used the .32 as a military caliber too.
Hello everyone. I am new to THR and have been doing a LOT of reading on the boards. What a wonderful website! I know its an old thread, but I thought I could add something. I spent some time stationed in the military over in Germany many moons ago. I had the wonderful opportunity to meet quite a few of the local police officers and detectives of the area I lived in. In many cases it happened to be at the local bistro's drinking our favorite beverage of choice...
Any ways we used to talk a lot about their transition from the Walther PP's in .32 ACP to what they dubbed as the "newer" and "more effective" H&K P7's in 9mm. To cut to the chase I was surprised to find that the older detective "plain cloths" officers who worked the streets years ago as uniformed officers preferred the .32 ACP over the P7's. When asked why, and I am gonna paraphrase from memory off of what THEY told me , they told me these 5 main reasons are why the .32 was more desirable for them. 1) They told me the Walther was a tad bit lighter then the P7. 2) They were completely reliable guns that they were very familiar with, and knew it's capabilities and limitations. 3) There was hardly any recoil felt and follow up shots were very controllable. 4) They hardly ever even displayed their guns let alone shot a bad guy. So in most cases when they did have to draw on those rare occasions the perp gave up because he simply seen that a police officers gun was pointed at him and ready to shoot him. 5) I those rear occasions when an officer was involved in a shooting, one shot hitting the perp ended the situation (notice they did not say "instantly ended the perps ability to continue to fight"). And they clarified this further with me. Not saying the perp was stopped by the impact of the round entering his body, but the physiological factor that told the perp inside his mind 1-2 seconds after he had been shot that he in fact had just been shot by the police with A GUN. And in most cases after the perp realized they had been shot they typically went into shock. These were their words so please don't bash me for them. I just thought these were beneficial comments that would help people make sound choices in choosing a .32 as a self defense round. Remember the German and other European countries used the .32 as a military caliber too.
benEzra
Moderator Emeritus
OK, I'll play, before someone shoots the Zombie Thread in the head...
As a primary defense gun? No, the .32 ACP is not really cut out for that, IMO.
As a BUG/pocket gun for CCW? Well, it's certainly no 9mm, but it IS far superior to .22LR and .25ACP, the calibers it is most commonly cross-shopped against.
As to ammo choice, I'd personally go with "tried and true" and carry Winchester 60-grain Silvertip JHP's over FMJ.
From some gelatin tests I dug up on the Intrawebz:
.32 ACP Ammo Test Results
Load........................Velocity....Penetration....Expansion
Federal Hydra-Shok 65 gr.....826 fps........13.5"........0.31"
Hornady XTP 60 gr............827 fps........10.0"........0.41"
Speer Gold Dot 60 gr.........823 fps........11.5"........0.31"
WW Silvertip 60 gr...........812 fps........12.5"........0.38"
Results are the average of 3 shots fired at 10 feet into ballistic gelatin.
Given that a lot of the .32's (Seecamp, Tomcat, etc.) are designed around the 60-grain Silvertip, I would lean toward that load. Penetration is entirely adequate (12.5") and while expansion isn't stellar (.38), it has to help.
As a primary defense gun? No, the .32 ACP is not really cut out for that, IMO.
As a BUG/pocket gun for CCW? Well, it's certainly no 9mm, but it IS far superior to .22LR and .25ACP, the calibers it is most commonly cross-shopped against.
As to ammo choice, I'd personally go with "tried and true" and carry Winchester 60-grain Silvertip JHP's over FMJ.
From some gelatin tests I dug up on the Intrawebz:
.32 ACP Ammo Test Results
Load........................Velocity....Penetration....Expansion
Federal Hydra-Shok 65 gr.....826 fps........13.5"........0.31"
Hornady XTP 60 gr............827 fps........10.0"........0.41"
Speer Gold Dot 60 gr.........823 fps........11.5"........0.31"
WW Silvertip 60 gr...........812 fps........12.5"........0.38"
Results are the average of 3 shots fired at 10 feet into ballistic gelatin.
Given that a lot of the .32's (Seecamp, Tomcat, etc.) are designed around the 60-grain Silvertip, I would lean toward that load. Penetration is entirely adequate (12.5") and while expansion isn't stellar (.38), it has to help.
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