32 ACP - lots to consider, not a ton of data.

[Palladan44]

In tinkering with my new favorite handgun caliber (32 ACP), ive come to a head scratcher. I don't want to create an overpressure situation. In this cartridge, it's extremely easy to do.
Ordered up 1000pcs of Bear Creek 80 gr LRN pictured here.


Ive attached more images to show how it compares to other bullets I have. I also included bullet length and diameter. From left to right....
~Gold Dot 60gr. .313"dia. .377" Long
~Hydra Shok 65gr. .3135"dia. .420" Long
~PPU JHP 71gr. .3095" dia. .447" Long
~Berrys TMJ. 71gr. .313" dia. .426" Long
~Bear Cr. LRN 80gr. .312 dia. .472" long

Heres another pic....


Since 32 ACP is a bit of a one-off cartridge these days, the data is pretty scarce. As ive worked up loads that are loosely based off of data from others, I start low and slowly work up. Hard to do when data spans .2gr from min to max!

Hard to know what kind of pressures are being created, all I can do is chrono the loads, see how far brass is being flung, feel how snappy the shot it and put a fired case back into the empty chamber and see how tight the fit is. I noticed beginning loads fall right back into the chamber and spin. I'll admit ive also had one batch of loads where the brass was guppie-bellied (Same headstamp brass) like a 40 S&W or warm 9mm where the brass bulges out toward the bottom in the unsupported area of the chamber toward the feed ramp. I think in 32 ACP this is a sure sign that the ammunition is overpressured given the 20,000 limit vs a 9mm or 40s 35,000 limit.
I have W231, Titegroup, CFE Pistol, Power Pistol, BE-86 that could all be possibilities. I also need to get the Dillon Extra Small powder bar for my 550B as my current regular pistol small thrower only goes down to 2.2gr of TG or W231 and I believe that is an over Max for this Bear Creek bullet. 2.2gr is perfect for the other bullets, however.
Anyone with a Lyman or cast bullets manual or Quikload could throw me a bone here, I'd be much obliged.

 

[JERRY]

I always wondered about people that reload using book data but no chronograph reading velocities. Not saying you don't, just lots of people posting load data but nothing about the end results.

 

[Walkalong]

Yep, such small capacity generally using fast powders adds up to .1 grain more can be an issue, have to work up slowly….

W-231 is very good in .32 ACP, and a little more forgiving than the really fast powders.

I like that, as well as AA #2, WST, N-310…..

 

[Outpost75]

Critical with .32 ACP is to avoid deep seating bullets. You don't want seating depth to exceed that of factory rounds. You also want to maintain overall cartridge length of 0.95" or greater to prevent shorter rounds from shuffling in the magazine stack to cause rimlock.

Accurate 31-081H is my design for .32 ACP. In the steel frame WW2 pistols 2 grains of Bullseye or TiteGroup or 3 grains of Unique is is a full charge load tested not to exceed 20,000 psi. In the Keltec or Beretta Tomcat do not exceed start loads of 1.8 grains of Bullseye or TiteGroup or 2.5 grains of Unique.

 

[Palladan44]

In the Keltec or Beretta Tomcat do not exceed start loads of 1.8 grains of Bullseye or TiteGroup or 2.5 grains of Unique.

So implying these are the MAX loads and don't go any higher?

 

[red rick]

Good thread OP . Like you I am liking my .32 PPK and that caliber . I like it so much that I am ordering a Kel-Tec P32 tomorrow for pocket carry situations . I also want to reload for it with the high cost and lack local availability for it . Like you said , you don’t have much room for era with it .

 

[Outpost75]

So implying these are the MAX loads and don't go any higher?

In the Keltec and Beretta Tomcat do not exceed 130 ft.-lbs. if you want the gun to last.

The WW2 era STEEL frame guns such as Beretta M1935, Cz27, Colt M1903 can be safely loaded to approach .380 ACP payload and energy. With 2 grains TiteGroup, 3 grains of Unique or Autocomp .309" diameter 90-grain Hornady XTP gets 900 fps from 3-1/2" barrel within CIP pressure limits as measured via strain gage and Oehler M43PBL.

 

[Galil5.56]

This is an interesting post and I'm curious to see how further testing pans out. Here is some Lyman data where you can split the difference. I would have no problem adding a few 10ths to the loads using WW231 or Unique as stated by others to mind seating depth. I also really think WW231 / HP38 would be where I would start, as it is not as peaky as some, i.e. Titegroup or Clays. Even in much larger rounds with greater case capacity I see noticeable, significant jumps with just an extra 1/10th or 2/10ths with Clays, which considering the propellants physical makeup (fluffy largish disks) makes volumetric drops hard enough to stay within that tolerance.

Smallest round I load with a similar max psi allowance is 9x18 Makarov, where WW231 and Unique work very well, and so does Power Pistol, HS-6, AA #5 and 700x. Heck, I even worked up perfectly fine loads with Blue Dot which seems impossible, but the chronograph does not lie. 700x works well but you gotta watch carefully to your drop numbers as I don't find it meters all that great... At least it is not like 800x, trying to meter hockey pucks. Good luck OP with your experiments.

 

[Boom Vang]

Based on @Outpost75's prior writings, I've loaded hundreds of .32 ACP with 78 grain cast RNL bullets under 2.0 grains of Titegroup. They work fine in all guns, including my Colt 1903s and Kel-Tec P32s, and it's a very accurate load. Out of the Colt 1903 it averages 910 fps, and from the P32 it averages 805 fps. Well within recoil energy levels of factory ammo.

The Beretta Tomcat is a weak blowback design based on the .25 ACP Jetfire, and is prone to frame cracking. I have over a thousand rounds of factory and handloads through my Kel-Tec P32, which is a locked-breech design, with no problems. It's not a heavy-duty gun and I wouldn't exceed factory Euro levels of recoil energy.

I've also used the Hornady 90 grain .309 XTP-HP with 3.0 grains of Autocomp in the Colt 1903. This load averages 975 fps in that pistol, which puts in into .380 ACP energy levels. That bullet penetrates 19" of ballistic media and expands to .440". Reliabilty is excellent in the 1903, but I would not use that in any lightweight blowback pistol.

 

[Rimfire McNutjob]

I'll run some QL sims if you want to pick one of the bullets to start with and a couple of powders. Might be good to check the water capacity of the cases you're using ... since the volume is so small it would likely improve the accuracy of the simulation. QL has a default of 9.25 grains of water as the 32ACP capacity.

Power Pistol is slow and inefficient in this and QL doesn't have BE-86 in the list. But Win 231 looks good.

 

[Show Me]

I always wondered about people that reload using book data but no chronograph reading velocities. Not saying you don't, just lots of people posting load data but nothing about the end results.

Or crony results and no mention of function or accuracy.

 

[red rick]

I ordered my P32 today . I thought that I would be getting it this week , but bummer , my LGS hasn’t used this distributor before so they have to have more than one order for them to ship it . She told me it would take 2 weeks . My pocket holster won’t be ready for another 6 weeks anyway , so no big rush .

 

[Outpost75]

Pressure tests indicate it is OK to substitute the .308" diameter Remington 93-grain FMJ .30 Luger bullet or 87-93 grain 7.62x25 military pulls for the 90 Hdy XTP at .955 OAL. I also have good results with Accurate 31-090B.

 

[P Flados]

Guidance from Outpost 75 on min COAL (0.950") is important to avoid rimlock. I ran a bunch of 32 ACP loads through Quickload and posted them at

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?455944-32-acp

I did a run for a 0.471" long 78 gr bullet (see post 61). This is very close to the Bear Creek bullet.

P44, Your Bear Creek bullets look to be intended for deeper seating than any of your other bullets. Deep seating pushes pressure up, so it would be good to think this one through. Have you assembled a dummy round to see what the COAL is when the crimp groove lines up with the case mouth. This will be an important input if you intend to seat using the crimp groove as a guide. Alternately, a COAL of 0.970" to 0.980" might work if the load will plunk. If it will plunk, this would not be a terrible choice regardless of where the crimp groove ends up.

As previously noted, for a Keltec or Baretta Tomcat, you will want to stay under 130 ft-lbs (~850 fps) for this bullet.

 

[Walkalong]

T&B coated 64 Gr SWC.

2.5 Grs W-231. WSP primer. .930 OAL.

Avg 994 FPS from a Beretta M-81 @ 90ish degrees.

 

[Palladan44]

Guidance from Outpost 75 on min COAL (0.950") is important to avoid rimlock. I ran a bunch of 32 ACP loads through Quickload and posted them at

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?455944-32-acp

I did a run for a 0.471" long 78 gr bullet (see post 61). This is very close to the Bear Creek bullet.

P44, Your Bear Creek bullets look to be intended for deeper seating than any of your other bullets. Deep seating pushes pressure up, so it would be good to think this one through. Have you assembled a dummy round to see what the COAL is when the crimp groove lines up with the case mouth. This will be an important input if you intend to seat using the crimp groove as a guide. Alternately, a COAL of 0.970" to 0.980" might work if the load will plunk. If it will plunk, this would not be a terrible choice regardless of where the crimp groove ends up.

As previously noted, for a Keltec or Baretta Tomcat, you will want to stay under 130 ft-lbs (~850 fps)

They will be pretty short if I go to the crimp groove. Around .950" so I'm planning on taper crimping and the lowest groove will be about .020" above the case mouth for about .970"
Going to test one first for plunk.
Im headed up to Titan tomorrow to get my extra small powder bar for my Dillon. Im planning on starting at 1.8 or 1.9 of W-231.

Ive read the 130ft/lb energy limit for the Tomcat in my Tomcat manual, however heard no such thing on the Kel Tec. Only thing it mentions in the manual is actually discussed only using +P ammo
(like the buffalo bore stuff) in limited quantities. Where did you get the information on the 130 ft/lb limit on the Kel Tec???

 

[Palladan44]

Or crony results and no mention of function or accuracy.

Really? Well, the data is a starting place.
Everyone's velocities will vary some, so take their results with a grain of salt.
If someone wants data, that too will have the test velocities from the loads.

 

[Outpost75]

Personal experience on Keltec. It doesn t hold up to high volume training use with Euro-CIP loads. It is a 2000 round life disposable gun.

 

[Palladan44]

Personal experience on Keltec. It doesn t hold up to high volume training use with Euro-CIP loads. It is a 2000 round life disposable gun.

Gotcha. Well, ill remember to keep them on the lighter sidd for that guy.
What part(s) failed?

 

[Outpost75]

Gotcha. Well, ill remember to keep them on the lighter sidd for that guy.
What part(s) failed?

Frame cracked.

 

[Palladan44]

Frame cracked.

Yeah, the gun is too compact to be too good to be true. Somethings got to give it guess.

 

[joneb]

I don't want to create an overpressure situation

The smallest handgun cartridge I reload for is the .380 acp. I prefer using powders that meter very well such as Accurate #2 or #5 or Bullseye and W-231. My only issue with Bullseye is the static thing.