32 Winchester Special with RCBS #32-170-FN

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The Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook #4 shows the .32 Winchester Special with a case length trimmed to 2.03" and the RCBS #32-170-FN gas check bullet seated with an overall length of 2.52".

The OAL of 2.52" results in the crimp groove being exposed. I have a hard time believing this is correct. 32 Winchester Special is mainly a lever gun cartridge and in a lever gun crimping like this would probably cause bullet setback under recoil.

If I crimp in the crimp groove, just underneath the front driving band I get an OAL of 2.48". This is what seems correct to me. Crimping just underneath the front driving band looks right and it prevents the bullet from going any deeper under recoil.

If you are using the RCBS #32-170-FN in the .32 Winchester Special please tell me where are you crimping? What is your OAL?

32WS OAL RCBS 32-170-FN 01b.jpg 32WS OAL RCBS 32-170-FN 03b.jpg
 
I tried both dummies and they both will chamber and eject. I agree with using the crimp groove, I don't see how one could do otherwise in a lever gun.

Col. Harrumph, the difference is not .004" it is .04". My biggest question is would the .04" raise pressures?
 
Col. Harrumph, the difference is not .004" it is .04".
You are correct, sir.
My biggest question is would the .04" raise pressures?
All other things being equal, it would have to. But things are not normally equal, and I'd bet the case mouth grabbing deeper into the crimp groove would have a greater effect. If the shorter round doesn't show signs of pressure, why worry?!
 
I use a roll crimp into the body of the bullet regularly, it's a good solid hold. The 270 bullet and the 154 noe bullets both crimp into a driving band in lever guns and are no problem. Minimizing jump, while properly cycling is top priority.
 
So are you saying that the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook #4 has loading data for a bullet cast from an RCBS mold?? That would really surprise me.

Regardless, unless you are using a maximum load, I would seat the bullet to the crimp groove and not worry about it. And with any cartridge, far, FAR more important than how much bullet is out of the case (o.a.l.) is how much bullet is in the case.

35W
 
I don't load the cartridge. The correct way is to crimp into the crimp groove and ignore the OAL. The RCBS 32-170-FN was designed for the 32 Winchester Special.

That's like saying the correct way to size a case is to go to the shell holder. It works but few would claim it's the correct way.... bullet jump and bullet deformation is more critical in cast boolits.
 
That's like saying the correct way to size a case is to go to the shell holder. It works but few would claim it's the correct way.... bullet jump and bullet deformation is more critical in cast boolits.
I would think the bullet manufacturer put the crimp groove in that specific place for a specific reason….
 
I would think the bullet manufacturer put the crimp groove in that specific place for a specific reason….
In this particular case I don't see many other guns using this bullet, so likely a safe bet. With a 30 caliber bullet no telling which it was originally intended for. My statement was more to allow for actual load tuning, and seating depth is a big part of that. The crimp groove is definitely a place to start, and ifn acceptable results are achieved where I would stay. The 38/357 made me explore other options, and I just carry that to the next loading. I haven't left the crimp grove in 7.7 yet because I'm still in the rough adjustments.
 
While I haven’t loaded the 32 Spl yet I do have 3 molds in anticipation of loading it.
A few of the cartridges I loaded for don’t have a crimp groove, as was mentioned in an above posting just lightly crimp into the body. Lightly I said.
I use NOE expanders to give a .002 snug neck tension. I load for 30-30, 348, 44 Mag, 357 Mag and there are a few designs that don’t have crimp grooves and if proper neck tension is applied, I’ve never had a problem.
Molds I have for this caliber are a NOE 135 grain FL, LEE 6 cavity group buy at 175 FN and a Lyman Lavern style FN.
I am looking for a RCBS mold that the OP has and would love one but I’m not going to pay the retail price asked for RCBS molds. But every RCBS mold I have are great casting molds. I’ll get one used one day, maybe.
 
In this particular case I don't see many other guns using this bullet, so likely a safe bet. With a 30 caliber bullet no telling which it was originally intended for. My statement was more to allow for actual load tuning, and seating depth is a big part of that. The crimp groove is definitely a place to start, and ifn acceptable results are achieved where I would stay. The 38/357 made me explore other options, and I just carry that to the next loading. I haven't left the crimp grove in 7.7 yet because I'm still in the rough adjustments.

I was referencing tube magazine and revolver type stuff…..
Shouldda been more clear in my comments…

I don’t crimp 7.7, but that’s my preference…
 
I was referencing tube magazine and revolver type stuff…..
Shouldda been more clear in my comments…

I don’t crimp 7.7, but that’s my preference…
I load lead in everything. My 357 boolits almost never align to the crimp grove. I haven really spent time on cast 30-30 but I shoot berry's and they can't be crimped aggressive....
 
Seat the bullet to and crimp into the crimp groove ... Book Dimension be Hanged .
In a lever gun it is more important to seat and crimp into the crimp groove .
Trim all your cases to one consistent length ... and go with them , the bullet is designed for the lever action 32 Special and will work just fine . OAL's are Not set in stone ... they can be adjusted !
Gary
 
So are you saying that the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook #4 has loading data for a bullet cast from an RCBS mold?? That would really surprise me.

Regardless, unless you are using a maximum load, I would seat the bullet to the crimp groove and not worry about it. And with any cartridge, far, FAR more important than how much bullet is out of the case (o.a.l.) is how much bullet is in the case.

35W
One of the reasons I bought the Lyman Cast Bullet #4 was they included data with Lee , RCBS , Saeco - Redding moulds ... I have a lot of Lee and RCBS moulds and was glad to see the additional data ...
Not a bad book to add to your collection of Cast Bullet manuals .
Gary
 
That's like saying the correct way to size a case is to go to the shell holder. It works but few would claim it's the correct way.... bullet jump and bullet deformation is more critical in cast boolits.
Both crimping in the crimp groove for the 32-170-FN and sizing to the shell holder is correct for 32WS, at least in this instance.

The OP is obviously new to loading, so my suggestions take into consideration both the cartridge and specific bullet as well as the OPs skill level. Not to mention the most likely type of firearm that his cartridge is chambered in.

While it’s possible that the OP has a bolt gun in 32WS it is very unlikely. He most likely has a lever gun such as a Winchester 94 or Marlin 336.

The type of loading you are suggesting is advanced, and best suited to bolt gun or single shot use.

Sizing to the shell holder not only “works” but it is the best way to ensure function of your ammunition in any given firearm. It returns your brass to minimum specs which is the best for function vs sizing to the individual gun which is the best for accuracy and brass life.

That said, sizing to the shell holder is not a detriment to either accuracy or brass life as a rule.

Accuracy is relative, so if sizing to the shell holder produces 2” groups while sizing to the chamber produces 1” groups it’s easy to slight the former and promote the latter, when in actuality they both are accurate, and they both have their own benefits.

The benefits of sizing to the shell holder are easy and repeatable set up, functional reliability, and cross weapon usage of loaded ammunition.

The benefits of sizing to the chamber are, potential increased accuracy, potential increased brass life. But those things are not a guarantee.

Some evidence is this 30-30 case life test I did where I got 20+ firings on a single case while setting the shoulder back .039.


Now to say full length resizing kills brass is not accurate because it is gun/cartridge specific, and dependent on many things including brass brand and lot, pressure, case prep techniques, and headspace.
 
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While I haven’t loaded the 32 Spl yet I do have 3 molds in anticipation of loading it.
A few of the cartridges I loaded for don’t have a crimp groove, as was mentioned in an above posting just lightly crimp into the body. Lightly I said.
I use NOE expanders to give a .002 snug neck tension. I load for 30-30, 348, 44 Mag, 357 Mag and there are a few designs that don’t have crimp grooves and if proper neck tension is applied, I’ve never had a problem.
Molds I have for this caliber are a NOE 135 grain FL, LEE 6 cavity group buy at 175 FN and a Lyman Lavern style FN.
I am looking for a RCBS mold that the OP has and would love one but I’m not going to pay the retail price asked for RCBS molds. But every RCBS mold I have are great casting molds. I’ll get one used one day, maybe.
True..............

But I would say in this case, crimping is not (and never should be) for bullet retention but for ignition purposes......................IMO...........
 
Both crimping in the crimp groove for the 32-170-FN and sizing to the shell holder is correct for 32WS, at least in this instance.

The OP is obviously new to loading, so my suggestions take into consideration both the cartridge and specific bullet as well as the OPs skill level. Not to mention the most likely type of firearm that his cartridge is chambered in.

While it’s possible that the OP has a bolt gun in 32WS it is very unlikely. He most likely had a lever gun such as a Winchester 94 or Marlin 336.

The type of loading you are suggesting is advanced, and best suited to bolt gun or single shot use.

Sizing to the shell holder not only “works” but it is the best way to ensure function of your ammunition in any given firearm. It returns your brass to minimum specs which is the best for function vs sizing to the individual gun which is the best for accuracy and brass life.

That said, sizing to the shell holder is not a detriment to either accuracy or brass life as a rule.

Accuracy is relative, so if sizing to the shell holder produces 2” groups while sizing to the chamber produces 1” groups it’s easy to slight the former and promote the latter, when in actuality they both are accurate, and they both have their own benefits.

The benefits of sizing to the shell holder are easy and repeatable set up, functional reliability, and cross weapon usage of loaded ammunition.

The benefits of sizing to the chamber are, potential increased accuracy, potential increased brass life. But those things are not a guarantee.

Some evidence is this 30-30 case life test I did where I got 20+ firings on a single case while setting the shoulder back .039.


Now to say full length resizing kills brass is not accurate because it’s is gun/cartridge specific, dependent on many things including brass brand and lot, pressure, case prep techniques, and headspace.
The most common failure I run across in 30-30 are splits in the shoulder. I don't think I've lost brass any other way. Annealing and partial sizing has prevented these losses 100%. Ifn he has properly stamped brass that isn't hugely available cheap, so that's why I presented those ideas. You are absolutely correct on limiting ideals of advanced techniques for a while, but if one is casting I don't assume they are novices. Ifn he is new to the game standard practices are warranted
 
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