338-06

[GooseGestapo]

RE: Hodgdon's data for .338/06
I've used the Hodgdon data and from my Adams&Bennet 24"bbl it WILL get the listed velocity with the LISTED COMPONENTS.

Using Winchester brass, which has a larger capacity and Federal or Winchester primers I've been able to get the 2,700fps listed for the 225's. My prefered 225gr load is the one listed in the Speer manual with RL19. This is/has been the only RL19 load that I've ever seen listed that actually got for me what it was supposed to. I get 2,716fps (5 shot average) from my gun and Hornady 225gr SST's. Speer used a 23" bbl to get 2,678 so the difference is small.

However, I prefer (actually my rifle) BLC2 under a 180 or 200gr Nosler BallisticTip/Comb.Tech bullet. I get 3,000fps with the 180 and 2,800fps with the 200's. My "elk load" is 56.5gr of BLC2 with some early Nosler 210's for 2,800fps (my bbl.). I also use 58.0gr of IMR4350 and a Hornady 250 to get 2,550fps. This is an old Elmer Keith load. And, it works just like he said it would! It is also the single most accurate load from my rifle.

I doubt that in the field with your 26"bbl and full loads you'll see a discernable difference between the .338/06AI and a 24" .338winmag. One difference and the reason I built my .338/06 is that you can get 5+1rds in the '06 whereas the .338mag is 3+1. Kinda over-rides the slight velocity advantage of the .338mag. And, with an irate brown/grizzly at under 50yds where the magazine advantage would be useful, the "lower" velocity of the .338/06 becomes and "advantage" as the slower bullets will expand a little less and perhaps a little more....
But, in real world conditions, the difference is so little as to be meaningless....

 

[HM2PAC]

So you seal the neck with tissue paper and wax from a candle. Do you melt the wax or just force it in unmelted on top of the tissue?

 

[GooseGestapo]

I didn't use wax, no need. Just a small plug of toilet paper wadded up like a spit-ball to keep everything in the case. I used 10.0gr of Unique. More or less won't make much difference.

I've used the wax before, but consider it too much trouble. I would use bullet lube, but it's too expensive/valuable on the cast bullets....
If using wax, just drip it from a candle.... heat and filler will wisk it from the barrel. I would use a cleaning rod/patch or bore snake to remove residue of cow/grits from bore.....

 

[35 Whelen]

So you seal the neck with tissue paper and wax from a candle. Do you melt the wax or just force it in unmelted on top of the tissue?

No, no.... no melting and no toilet paper. After you fill the case with COW, get one of your wifes candles, push the mouth of the case into the side of it 1/8" - 1/4" and give it a twist. The case will be plugged with wax. Then put the candle back rotating it so the damage is on the backside of the candle and cannot be seen by the wife.

...or you can just use toilet paper.

35W

 

[HM2PAC]

Thanx Goose, both of those posts were great.

I'm getting antsy already and the rifle won't be ready for about 2 months!

 

[fguffey]

February 12, 2013, 10:04 PM #1
HM2PAC
Member


Join Date: July 21, 2007
Location: Maine, USA
Posts: 868 338-06

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I have finally taken the plunge. I'm having a local gunsmith that I've known for quite some time renovate my Savage 110. the plan is to go from .30-06 to .338-06 Ackley Improved.

While I wait for the rifle to be completed, I'm prepping brass and am getting ready to make a few rounds for fire forming of the shoulder.

I have a few questions.....

1. How much powder do I need in the case to form the new AI shoulder? Will a starting load be enough? Can I go lower than a starting load and save a little powder?

2. How much use can I get out of the cases that I have necked out from .30-06 brass? Does the necked out case have a thin neck wall that will fail earlier than usual?

3. Does anyone have any other information on questions that I don't know enough to ask?

Thanx in advance.
__________________


Good choice, necked up? Thin or thick? When 30/06 cases are necked up to 35 Whelen an or 338/06 the case shortens .035” before the case is chambered, no one says “WHAT!” Then they start rationalizing, something like study long? Study wrong! When the neck of the 30/06 case is necked up the neck gets shorter as in between the shoulder/neck juncture not between the mouth of the case to the head of the case, most of the ‘setting shorter’ has to do with the neck, when the neck is necked up it gets shorter, when necked down it gets longer, then comes the rationalizing, to most necking up and or down has more to do with longer and or shorter than it does with the neck getting thicker and or thinner.

Fire forming and what load, I load them and do, all the wax, cereal, toilet paper and meal is cute, as in ‘here is what I do’ I don’t. I load them and go.

Head spacing? Going from 30/06 to 338/06 Ackley improved is one of those built in things, the neck on the Ackely chambers is longer than the parent chamber, to head space? it is only necessary to chamber the round, head spacing is taking care of. The neck of the original case is shorter than the Ackley neck chamber, meaning when the case is chambered the neck is sized when the bolt closes, the rest of the case is formed when fired, again I do not do the reduced load thing, I fire once and then eject perfect cases, that could shorten again, after necking up because the case must form the rest of the shoulder after chambering and the case body must fill the chamber. The case filling the chamber pulls the neck of the case back, this could decrease the length of the case an additional few thousandths.

Short cases, you should ask your smith for a diagram of your chamber, a few smiths can determine the length of the chamber from the shoulder back to the bolt face, when adjusting the sizer die knowing the length of the chamber is a big aid when (bumping?) sizing a case to length between the head of the case to its shoulder.

Life of the case and necked up. I use 280 Remington cases for 30 Gibbs cases. The neck on the 30 Gibbs is .217” long, by selecting longer cases I can add to the length of the neck .045” When using 280 Remington cases for 35 Whelen and 338/06 cases the additional case length of .041” and the additional length between the case head and shoulder allow for off setting the length of the improved chamber if you have the full length sizing die. Again, the shoulder on the 280 Remington is .051” ahead of the 30/06 case.

Pressure? When fire forming a case body and shoulder to a wildcat type chamber pressure is reduced, because the case must expand to fill the chamber, that takes time, time is a factor, I have fire formed cases with loads that were at or near maximum for cases that are formed to the chamber.


http://www.z-hat.com/Cylinder.htm

Back to case life, start with new cases, more times than not the conversation starts with “I have a lot of brass lying around and I am going to form them to etc.. To qualify that statement a warning label should be added that reads something like cases fired over and over are work hardened, worked hardened brass has an increased ability to resist sizing and splits when expanded (when fired). After that there is annealing.

F. Guffey