35 whelan

[Csinn]

I’ve been interested in getting a 35 whelan and saw CVA started making a bolt action. What I didn’t know is how popular they are still. They sold out almost immediately. Looks like it might be harder to get than I thought

 

[Ohen Cepel]

A bolt or break action?

I think the Whelen is allowed in several states for hunting now where it wasn't before, so that may be driving demand a lot.

 

[Csinn]

Bolt action, nice looking gun

 

[Rodfac]

Remington had a run of classics back in the late 80's IIRC. I bought a .35 Whelen then and used it on deer and three Colorado elk over the years. It was an MOA rifle after I glass bedded the action, and free floated the bbl. I used Speer Grand Slams, 250 gr's or Sierra's 225 gr Spitzer on elk with good results...killing one at 250+ yds. With the 225 Sierra, I got a chrono'd 2550 fps from that rifle, giving me good point blank shots out to 275 yds without hold over and with good retaining energy.

As a deer rifle, my favorite bullets were Remington, Sierra or Hornady 200 gr RN'sl, in about that order, backed by 4064 or 4320, & loaded to ~ 2400-2500 fps. It was a hellofa deer rifle with a lot of smack.

With revolver bullets, almost any 158 jacketed or Lyman's famous 358156 GC, made for a good plinker or woodchuck load. It was surprisingly accurate with these too...1-1/2" to 2" groups, scoped were normal at 100 yds.

Initially, I used Remington factory loads for the brass, then began reloading for it. Later, as factory brass sources dried up, I fire formed .30-06 military brass to .35 Whelen. It was an easy process, being careful to keep the neck/shoulder area the correct length for proper head spacing. I used cast bullets with Bullseye or Win 231 for the forming with a tuft of dacron to keep the powder charge back against the primer prior to firing. RCBS' 35-200 was especially good and killed a number of KY whitetails for me.

I liked the rifle, and gave it to one of my sons when my age precluded elk trips to the high country up near Kenosha Pass in Colorado. It's an old-school elk and moose rifle....hope he gets to take it on a trip or two out to the mountains.

Sorry, I've never taken pics of it...HTH's, Rod

 

[jmr40]

I had a Ruger 77 in 35 Whelen for a while and my brother had a Remington 7600 in it. They look better on paper than in reality. A 30-06 does everything a 35 Whelen does and does most of it better. With less recoil and flatter trajectory.

If you have 2 cartridges shooting similar bullet weights with similar powder charges the larger caliber will always have more muzzle velocity which looks good on paper. But assuming the same bullets, the smaller caliber bullet will always penetrate deeper and will catch up in velocity and at some point down range will be faster. In this case at around 200 yards.

People sometimes forget that 220 gr was the original 30-06 bullet weight. A 220 from a 30-06 does everything a 250 does from a 35 Whelen and a 200 gr 30-06 does everything a 225 does from a 35 Whelen.

There is at least one state, maybe more, that consider a 35 Whelen single shot rifle as a primitive weapon that can be used during that season so for those people it makes sense. And a lot of people load light 357 pistol bullets in them with reduced charges for small game that they stumble upon while big game hunting.

On the other hand, you don't give up a lot compared to 30-06 either. They still shoot flat enough to take deer size game at reasonable ranges with the lighter bullet choices. Sometimes you have an itch for something that needs to be scratched. I've been there and done that many times.

 

[Csinn]

Would it be worth getting the 35 over a .280ai or 7rem mag?

 

[WisBorn]

Would it be worth getting the 35 over a .280ai or 7rem mag?

The question is, what do you want to use the rifle for? Woods elk and deer? 35 Whelen. Open country elk and deer? 7rm.

I have a 7rm. So for me it would be the 35 Whelen.

 

[Csinn]

I have a 45/70 for woods, but the furthest I’d ever shoot is 450 yards. Eastern Oregon is very open but I am not confident enough for a. Long range kill. I probably will get either a 7rm or 280 anyway, the 35 is just a fascinating cartridge to me. I just never really wanted a single shot. What’s max range for a whelen? I’ve read 400 yards

 

[.45Coltguy]

Dang. If OP wants a .35 Whelen, then, by all means, he should get one. Nothing wrong with wanting a new rifle/cartridge.

 

[35 Whelen]

As you can see, I'm a big fan of the caliber. My elk load is a 225 gr. Barnes TSX at just under 2700 fps and stupid, ridiculously accurate. When I was developing loads in my rifle (custom, VZ24 action, Douglas barrel, 4X Burris scope) the biggest group I fired was 1.25" with most well under 1" and a few in the 1/2"-5/8" range.



Getcha one!!

35W

 

[Macchina]

I agree with many posts here.

It's an out of date cartridge now unfortunately (long action without the long throat).

Want close range .35 Caliber: go 350 Legend.
Want an all-around (up to 500 yards) cartridge that has cheap ammo go 30-06 or .308

I was always interested in the .338 Federal. Bigger bore than most deer rounds but very efficient like the 35 Whelen yet in a short action. I wish it would have caught on more...

 

[Chuck R.]

I'm a huge fan of the 35s owning a 350RM and a 358Win.

IMHO they do have "smackdown" due to the increased cross sectional area. While guys often tout SD, they often ignore the frontal area, and here the .358 has around a 1/3rd greater advantage. Put a 200-225 mono grain bullet in it and you'll have more than enough pentration for anything on NA. Why is it that SD fans always discount or don't take into consideration frontal diameter??? A dimes difference in diameter doesn't matter but .08 delta in SD does??

IMHO Bullet construction trumps SD, and once you get complete penetration, that extra SD is going into the ground or a tree. The 35W does carry more energy, with a 225 at 2700+ (easily doable) it's just about as flat shooting as a 30-06 with a 180 grn.

Recoil with similar bullet weights is going to be a toss-up. I seriously doubt anyone can feel a difference in the couple more grains of powder the 35W will hold.

Just to put to bed the whole flatter shooting thing, using Nosler load data from their website:

30-06, 220 Nolser Partition (.331 SD) Max velocity they list is 2602 FPS

30-06 Springfield Load Data

Explore the world of Nosler, renowned for crafting the finest bullets, ammunition, rifles, and brass. Discover our extensive lineup, including Partition, AccuBond, E-Tip, Ballistic Tip, Custom Competition, and more. Experience superior quality and performance with Nosler products.

go.thehighroad.org

.35Whelen, 225 Nolser Partition (.251SD), max MV is 2806, but we'll use 2740 cause the .35W test barrel was 26" VS 24" for the 30-06 and I don't want to give the lumbering 35W a false advantage, so I subtracted 30 FPS per inch. It's a little high, but it's not going to matter.

35 Whelen Load Data

Explore the world of Nosler, renowned for crafting the finest bullets, ammunition, rifles, and brass. Discover our extensive lineup, including Partition, AccuBond, E-Tip, Ballistic Tip, Custom Competition, and more. Experience superior quality and performance with Nosler products.

go.thehighroad.org

Gives the 30-06 a MPBR of 288yds on an 8" kill zone and at 500 yds 1166LBs of energy

The "ballistically handicapped" 35Whelen has a MPBR of 307yds on the same 8" kill zone and 1842 lbs of energy at 500 yds

Drop for the 35W 225 load at 500 yds with a 200yd zero is 47"
Drop for the 30-06 220 load at 500 is 59.4" with the same 200yd zero

So for rough numbers.. 12" less drop and around 650lbs more energy at 500yds, beyond what most guys are shooting game at.

You can cherry pick some higher BC bullets in .308, but a 140FPS advantage isn't going away in 200yds, or 300yds. Yes you can load the 30-06 slightly hotter, but there's guys reporting 2900 with 225s and TAC.

Data courtesy of Strelok Pro.... using the same weather/temp for both catridges.

Couple of points for the OP.

Factory 35W ammo is underloaded due to the older guns, pumps and autos.
There are lots of ballistic programs on line, don't believe me, run your own data.

 

[Rlafever]

I agree with many posts here.

It's an out of date cartridge now unfortunately (long action without the long throat).

Want close range .35 Caliber: go 350 Legend.
Want an all-around (up to 500 yards) cartridge that has cheap ammo go 30-06 or .308

I was always interested in the .338 Federal. Bigger bore than most deer rounds but very efficient like the 35 Whelen yet in a short action. I wish it would have caught on more...

There is/was a .338 federal hog hunter savage, on sportsman's outdoor super store onsale I was tempted but didn't buy it

 

[Slamfire]

A lot of paper numbers about the effectiveness and range of a 35 Whelen, but people ought to shoot the things at range to find out what they are doing.

I sighted this in at my local gun club

A 250 grain bullet going 2500 fps +- absolutely will stomp you. This rifle really beat me up, and I was kicking like a jackass before the magazine was empty.

A 225 grain bullet was somewhat less painful

I did take the 35 Whelens to CMP Talladega with 200 grain Federal Fusion spire point flat base, and I am very sure the bullets were tumbling after 300 yards, because they were all over the place at 600 yards. I could hear them occasionally hitting the 600 yard frame. Many went into the berm. You have to shoot a bullet at distance, in your rifle, with your load, to know if the bullet is stable beyond 300 yards. Bullet companies test in their 300 yard wind tunnels, beyond that, what happens, is not something they check. The Berger ballistician said Berger had an employee who shot in 2 mile matches, so they do get feedback on their bullets at extreme range. But who is shooting 2 miles with hunting bullets, or even at 600 yards? Not target shooters. I also think shooting at a distance where the bullet won't expand, and the game runs off and dies a suffering death, is unethical. Long shots should be left to combat games, where paper or steel targets are used. Not living things.

I don't know if the 225 SPBT Sierra is stable past 300 yards, because I do remember, I was just too beat up in zeroing out to 300 yards. This cartridge kicks! I took off the long scope off the M700 in the picture, because the thing kept smacking my glasses to my eyesockets on recoil. So I installed one that gave me more clearance between the eyepiece and eyeball!

I tested various powders, IMR 3031, N135, N140, and IMR 4064. In my opinion, just go straight to IMR 4064 and do not waste any time with any other powders. IMR 4064 has given the most consistent accuracy and speed, out to 300 yards with my 200 and 225 grain bullets.


M700 Remington 24" 1-16 twist

200 Federal Fusion SPFB 56.0 grs IMR 4064 wtd lot E89AU22 (1989) mixed military cases, Fed 210S OAL 3.050" greased bullets & cases

23 Feb 2018 T = 81 °F

Ave Vel = 2437
Std Dev = 31
ES = 79
High = 2473
Low = 2394
N = 10



200 Federal Fusion SPFB 58.0 grs IMR 4064 wtd lot E89AU22 (1989) LC62 annealed cases, Fed 210S OAL 3.050" to cannulure greased bullets & cases

7 Mar 2018 T = 45 °F

Ave Vel = 2596
Std Dev = 30
ES = 100
High = 2639
Low = 2539
N = 15


Dumoulin Mauser 24" 1:14" twist ER Shaw barrel, light varmit contour

200 Federal Fusion SPFB 56.0 grs IMR 4064 wtd lot E89AU22 (1989) Mixed Military cases, Fed 210S OAL 3.050" to cannulure greased bullets & cases

23 Feb 2018 T = 75 °F

Ave Vel = 2411
Std Dev = 31
ES = 119
High = 2457
Low = 2338
N = 11


200 Federal Fusion SPFB 58.0 grs IMR 4064 wtd lot E89AU22 (1989) LC62 annealed cases, Fed 210S OAL 3.050" to cannulure greased bullets & cases

7 Mar 2018 T = 45 °F

Ave Vel = 2576
Std Dev = 36
ES = 129
High = 2641
Low = 2512
N = 10

 

[49willys]

The 35 whelen was never meant to be a paper puncher,all the numbers and charts mean squat,shoot an elk with one and you'll know why people love the cartridge.

 

[elktrout]

Many different opinions here on this cartridge, same as any other cartridge that stimulates discussion. My brother has a 35W. He loves it. I hate it. It does kick harder than I want.

 

[Enfieldier]

I had one built on an FN commercial Mauser action with a Shaw barrel. I loaded 275 gr RN bullets (no longer made) and felt like I was ready for dinosaurs with it. This gun may have been a significant factor in my years-later total rebuild of my shooting shoulder! My main load was with 250 gr bullets and .30-06 cases run through the .35 Whelen die to open them up. Another rifle (in a long list) that I regret having sold.

 

[Slamfire]

I have the original 1920's Arms and the Man article where Townsend Whelen introduces the 35 Whelen, and the 1923 article for his 400 Whelen. Col Whelen was looking for a cartridge that would use the 30-06 action, but be equal to the 375 H&H. Without having to pay through the nose for a rifle from Holland and Holland.

This is a 1958 300 H&H catalog page:

the 35 Whelen was close to Holland and Holland 375 velocities

This is the dimensions of the 35 Whelen case from the original article:

Col Whelen was living in a period when rifles with scopes were rare. This is close to a Springfield Sporter

that Lyman 48S was big stuff up to the 1950's, when most rifles used irons. Do note, the 300 H&H above came from the factory with 200 and 350 yard sight leaves. No one was shooting at game, 500, 600, 1200 yards, with a front bead and a rear aperture.

This might have been 1920's or 1930's. No scope!

Everything on the cover is iron sighted:

A 35 Whelen will make a big hole well within distances that a shooter can see the game, and use irons to hit it.

Scopes had come down in price by 1950,

but look at how much they cost. A Leupold scope and rings for $77.50 ($1,008 adjusted for 2024 money) when an FN Mauser rifle was $137.50? ($1,789 adjusted for 2024 money)

 

[Elkins45]

I bought a Marlin bolt action at a clearance sale and mounted a Midway 35 Whelen barrel that was supposed to be for a Savage action. It needed 0.015 shaved off the face to headspace and I butchered up the plastic stock with a Dremel inletting the barrel. That was about 15 years ago and I’ll bet I haven’t even touched it since before Covid.

I wish now I had just left the original 270 barrel on it. At least that way I could sell it.

 

[tdbmd]

I’ve been interested in getting a 35 whelan and saw CVA started making a bolt action. What I didn’t know is how popular they are still. They sold out almost immediately. Looks like it might be harder to get than I thought

I have had a Remington 700 Classic in .35 Whelen since 1999. Wonderful cartridge. It has been to Canada and Africa twice on hunting trips and taken game from steenbok to moose and eland. Very effective and still relatively easy to shoot. I have mostly used 225 grain bullets, either Nosler Partition or factory loaded Federal Trophy Bonded Bearclaws - which were spectacular on game.

 

[tdbmd]

I have a 45/70 for woods, but the furthest I’d ever shoot is 450 yards. Eastern Oregon is very open but I am not confident enough for a. Long range kill. I probably will get either a 7rm or 280 anyway, the 35 is just a fascinating cartridge to me. I just never really wanted a single shot. What’s max range for a whelen? I’ve read 400 yards

My longest shot on game was a moose in northern Alberta at a laser measured 412 yards with the .35 Whelen and 225 grain TBBC bullets. It can do longer shots but that is not really where it shines. I would keep the ranges around 300 yards and in, if I have my choice.

 

[adcoch1]

I rebarreled my old savage 110 to 35 whelen a while back, yet to take game with it. But I love the rifle and the cartridge. I basically wanted a do anything rifle, and it will do virtually anything I want done. It's accurate out to any ethical hunting distance, can shoot cast bullets big enough for dangerous game, use cheap bullets for deer, and load way down for close in smaller game. And that's exactly what I wanted it for. It's a labor of love, and it's also practical. Plus it's cheap and fun to shoot. So for me it's perfect...

 

[chickasaw_hunter]

I got a 700 BDL in 1988. That was the first year Remington introduced them. My hand loading log shows my first loads in January of 1989. In those olden golden days the reloading manuals didn't list .35W. My first loads came from data out of magazines. I used IMR 4064, still the best powder I've ever used for it. Bullets could be hard to come by back in those very early days. This was before the days of the internet. On my work trips I made a point to check out as many of the local gun shops as I could and pick up whatever .35 bullets they might have. The most accurate for me were Sierra 225's. I also had good luck with the 250grn Speer Hot Cores. Just plain ole 250 grn Round Nose bullets worked really great. At my last count I'd taken 11 elk with it. A buddy also bought a 700 BDL a few years after I did. He loved it and preferred the round nose bullets for it, but had good luck with the Nosler 225's as far as accuracy. I never found that sweet spot with the Nosler's and it never worked well in my rifle. That really seemed odd to me, because most any bullet I tried the rifle would group well, but for me not so much with the Nosler. Not trashing Nosler, they shot well for my buddy, but he liked how the 250 round nose bullets worked on game best of all. We both found that there wasn't really a need for the spitzer bullets in our Whelen's. The round nose bullets shot great groups and performed very well on game and the benefits of the spitizer bullets didn't kick in until well beyond the ranges we felt comfortable shooting at game.

 

[luv2safari]

I have a 45/70 for woods, but the furthest I’d ever shoot is 450 yards. Eastern Oregon is very open but I am not confident enough for a. Long range kill. I probably will get either a 7rm or 280 anyway, the 35 is just a fascinating cartridge to me. I just never really wanted a single shot. What’s max range for a whelen? I’ve read 400 yards

400 yards is about it. In reality it's more of a 350 yard round.

With the increased availability of 9.3X62 ammo, good 9.3 bullets now, and a bit more "Hammer-Factor", a 9.3X62 makes more sense, IMO.

I had one of the 1980's run of Rem Classics in the 35, and it shot mediocre at best. After I glassed the action, worked the trigger, and floated the barrel it shot a bit better. I sent it down the road and had JES re-bore a properly sporterized 1917 Enfield to the 35. It shot very well, but it was awfully heavy and was sold off.

Shortly after selling it, CZ started marketing their good 600 in 9,3X62, and I got one through a distributor friend. I hated the safety and dumped it, but it shot better than any Whelen I had ever encountered, typical for the 9.3X62. After a few years of wanting another 9.3 I got a new CZ 550 American with their awful slab of a stock. My gunwriter friend in Montana got one, but he had a great stock guy change the stock configuration into what a real rifle should feel and look like. You couldn't pry it away from him. I sold mine.

Not missing the 35 Whelen at all, I ended up with three 98 Mauser-actioned 9.3X62s over several years, selling one I didn't like, one I loved but let go for medical bills when cancer hit, and kept an FN actioned Huaqvarna, now with a well tuned Timney trigger.

With Nosler 250gr AccuBonds and a healthy load under them it's a legitimate 425-450 yard rifle with practice and a good rangefinder. The Whelen gets left in the dust. That's pretty good performance from Otto Bock's 117 year old gift to medium-bore shooters.

I should have just said "get a 9.3X62".

 

[Bfh_auto]

Sorry, if you can't spell it, you can't have it! lol

DM

Yeah it's spelled Waylay because it waylays everything.