35 WHELEN

all I know, is I knew a neigbhor that hunted with dogs, and he said half the guys he hunted with were three sheets to the wind and I can see a bunch of guys (read drunk rednecks with guns) waiting for the first thing to come out in front of he dogs to shoot, and with my luck, that would be me!!!
Not much is worse that a bunch of drunks with loaded guns
 
when I was 10 years old my granddad told us alcohol and guns don't mix. He had been an old time town marshall in Oklahoma during the oil boom of the 1920s and 1930s
 
OLDE RETIRED COASTIE said:
What What do ya'll think of the 35 Whelen? I was always told was the poor mans magnum. Right now can get a cva scout for about 400 from Buds. I reload so would be no problem
Click to expand...

What are you planning on using it for and what do you already have? I always wanted a 35 Whelen and a 25-06 when I was younger. Over the years I gained more of an appreciation for how universal the 30-06 can be.
 
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OLDE RETIRED COASTIE said:
all I know, is I knew a neigbhor that hunted with dogs, and he said half the guys he hunted with were three sheets to the wind and I can see a bunch of guys (read drunk rednecks with guns) waiting for the first thing to come out in front of he dogs to shoot, and with my luck, that would be me!!!
Not much is worse that a bunch of drunks with loaded guns
Click to expand...

About a half dozen years ago the sheriff of the largest county here in Oregon shot a buddy in the leg with his hunting rifle while sitting around the campfire (and drinking of course). After an investigation the sheriff lost his job, not due to the accident but due to trying to cover it up and lying about it to the press and other government officials.

No one has ever had to tell me that alcohol and guns don't mix. That has always been so obvious to me that it never really needed to be said.
 
when I was stationed in Alaska the last time , there was a range we went to all the time, and the last time I went was a bunch of guys shooting and drinking beer. I left without firing a shot, that was an accident looking for a place to happen.
And last I heard was a guy got shot in the foot.
 
My grand dad bought my brother and I , our first gun , a Winchester model 67A single shot .22 rifle, and told us never shoot at anything you don't aim to kill, never kill anything you don't aim to eat, and a gun was always loaded, until you checked otherwise. And alcohol and guns don't mix. I was 10 and my brother was 8. We had a good grandpa
 
Returning to the subject of this thread: The heyday of the .35 Whelen was from about 1947 thru the 1960's. Thats when returning GIs were looking for good low cost hunting rifles and amateur do-it-yourself gunsmiths (AKA Bubbas) could be found in about every garage. Surplus '03 Springsfields and "brought home" Mausers of every description were plentyful and could be bought for less that $100. That when Bishop, Fajen, Herters and a few others suppplied semi-finished gunstocks that could be fitted to most of these war salvage rifless and finished in a couple of weekend. On clue, gun writers of the time were praising the .35 Whelen, which could be manufactured by simply reboring existing barrels or fitting new barrels. The .35 Whelen was then a wildcat cartridge, commercial ammo didn't exist, but reloaders could make plenty of cheap ammo simply by easily reshaping salvage .30/06 brass to .35
Whelen confriguration, which added greatly to its appeal. I suspect that by the time Remington got around to offering commercial rifles and ammo in 1987 there were thousands of such Bubbamade .35 Whelens already in service, had been for decades, and the bloom was somewhat off the rose. Attached is a .35 Whelen made from a surplus '98 Style Mauser. The stock and metal work is somewhat more refined than most neighborhood Bubbas, but shows what can be, and was, accomplished in the heyday of do-it-yourself .35 Whelens DSC_0232 (2).JPG DSC_0238 (3).JPG DSC_0244 (2).JPG DSC_0478 (2).JPG Mou7 (2).JPG IMG-3918-2.jpg
 
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Litetrigger said:
Returning to the subject of this thread: The heyday of the .35 Whelen was from about 1947 thru the 1960's. Thats when returning GIs were looking for good low cost hunting rifles and amateur do-it-yourself gunsmiths (AKA Bubbas) could be found in about every garage. Surplus '03 Springsfields and "brought home" Mausers of every description were plentyful and could be bought for less that $100. That when Bishop, Fajen, Herters and a few others suppplied semi-finished gunstocks that could be fitted to most of these war salvage rifless and finished in a couple of weekend. On clue, gun writers of the time were praising the .35 Whelen, which could be manufactured by simply reboring existing barrels or fitting new barrels. The .35 Whelen was then a wildcat cartridge, commercial ammo didn't exist, but reloaders could make plenty of cheap ammo simply by easily reshaping salvage .30/06 brass to .35
Whelen confriguration, which added greatly to its appeal. I suspect that by the time Remington got around to offering commercial rifles and ammo in 1987 there were thousands of such Bubbamade .35 Whelens already in service, had been for decades, and the bloom was somewhat off the rose. Attached is a .35 Whelen made from a surplus '98 Style Mauser. The stock and metal work is somewhat more refined than most neighborhood Bubbas, but shows what can be, and was, accomplished in the heyday of the .35 WhelenView attachment 1171642View attachment 1171643View attachment 1171644View attachment 1171645View attachment 1171646View attachment 1171648
Click to expand...

Your beautiful collection of rifles and the term “bubba” should never coexist in the same post.

Just another stunning example for which I have run out of adjectives.
 
DMW1116 said:
For those in the dark, what are those? I mean besides 35 Whelen? Specifically ones using 0.358 diameter bullets?
Click to expand...
To name a few .358s, not including the .355 and .348:

.357 Magnum in a rifle..
360 "Buck Hammer" new
.35-30 Wildcat (Necked up 30-30)
35 Remington
35 Winchester (older, not the same as .358Win)
.358 Winchester
356 Winchester (.358Win with a rim)
.35 Whelen
.350 Remington Magnum
.358 Sambar Wildcat based on .30WSM opened up to .358
.358 Norma Magnum
.358 STA Magnum (Shooting Times Alaskan)
350 Rigby, interesting round had a great reputation for killing stuff in Africa, with basically .35Whelen ballistics (225 grain at 2630 FPS or so)

There may be a few more..

Edited to add a few more:

35Krag that Roverguy mentioned, but it's not listed in Howell's book.

Then according to Ken Howell's awesome Custom Cartridge Book, some other little know wildcats and cartridges that use .358 bullets:

35 Greevey Express, using 45-70 brass
357 Herret
357 Remington Magnum "Maximum"
358 Davis Short Magnum
358 Davis Short Magnum #2
358 Davis Special #2 Uses 405Win Brass
358 JDJ Using 444 marlin Brass
.35 G&H Magnum
35 Newton
35-06 Rimmed
35-318 Wesley Richards
35 x 31/4" Davis Express
350 Mangum Rigby
.350 Maine Guide I using 38-55 brass
.350 Maine Guide II using 32Win brass
350 #2 Rigby (rimmed)
358 Schofield using 404 Jeffery brass
360 Imperial magnum using 404 Jeffery Brass
 
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Robert said:
What bullet weight and what velocity? I'm pushing 270gr bullets around 2700fps in my 375.
Click to expand...

I was with a rifle builder, who was a friend of a friend, for some rifle testing years ago. He had made a 35 Whelen AI Remington 7600. He was shooting 310 gr Woodleigh bullets at 2450 fps. I saw the chronograph readings. It even extracted the rounds fine in that 7600 action. 225 Noslers, both Partitions and Ballistic Tips, reached just under 2700 fps.

I was honestly shocked the 7600 could cycle and extract the rounds just fine. I suppose the AI configuration may be able to handle higher pressures better than the standard 35W chamber. I kind of became a believer in the 35W AI after that even though there is ample evidence out there that the AI whelen just doesn’t do that much.

None of the brass showed signs of over pressure either.
 
Chuck R. said:
To name a few .358s, not including the .355 and .348:

.357 Magnum in a rifle..
360 "Buck Hammer" new
.35-30 Wildcat (Necked up 30-30)
35 Remington
35 Winchester (older, not the same as .358Win)
.358 Winchester
356 Winchester (.358Win with a rim)
.35 Whelen
.350 Remington Magnum
.358 Sambar Wildcat based on .30WSM opened up to .358
.358 Norma Magnum
.358 STA Magnum (Shooting Times Alaskan)
350 Rigby, interesting round had a great reputation for killing stuff in Africa, with basically .35Whelen ballistics (225 grain at 2630 FPS or so)

There may be a few more..
Click to expand...
35 Krag. Probably America’s oldest wildcat. In a modern action, delivers more velocity than 358 Win,
 
Chuck R. said:
The 35Whelen is having a bit of resurgence thanks to the states that mandate .35 cal or larger.

The guys that love the mid-bores love them, the guys that say it has no advantage over a .308 don't. It's not going to change, just like the 30-30 guys and 35Rem guys going at it.

How the upgrade in bullet technology helped the 30s and bypassed the .358s escapes me ;) but there's are some very good, higher BC bullets available such as the Nosler 225 AB and the Nosler 225 Partition. Then there are the Barnes bullets which somehow manage to get through animals even with their modest SDs due to their relative lightweight VS diameter.

IMHO Bullet construction trumps SD, and once you get complete penetration, that extra SD is going into the ground or a tree. The 35W does carry more energy, with a 225 at 2700+ (easily doable) it's just about as flat shooting as a 30-06 with a 180 grn.

Why is it that SD fans always discount or don't take into consideration frontal diameter??? A dimes difference in diameter doesn't matter but .08 delta in SD does?? :oops:

Recoil with similar bullet weights is going to be a toss-up. I seriously doubt anyone can feal a difference in the couple more grains of powder the 35W will hold.

Just to put to bed the whole flatter shooting thing, using Nosler load data from their website:

30-06, 220 Nolser Partition (.331 SD) Max velocity they list is 2602 FPS

30-06 Springfield Load Data

Explore the world of Nosler, renowned for crafting the finest bullets, ammunition, rifles, and brass. Discover our extensive lineup, including Partition, AccuBond, E-Tip, Ballistic Tip, Custom Competition, and more. Experience superior quality and performance with Nosler products.
www.nosler.com www.nosler.com

.35Whelen, 225 Nolser Partition (.251SD), max MV is 2806, but we'll use 2740 cause the .35W test barrel was 26" VS 24" for the 30-06 and I don't want to give the lumbering 35W a false advantage, so I subtracted 30 FPS per inch. It's a little high, but it's not going to matter.

35 Whelen Load Data

Explore the world of Nosler, renowned for crafting the finest bullets, ammunition, rifles, and brass. Discover our extensive lineup, including Partition, AccuBond, E-Tip, Ballistic Tip, Custom Competition, and more. Experience superior quality and performance with Nosler products.
www.nosler.com www.nosler.com

Gives the 30-06 a MPBR of 288yds on an 8" kill zone and at 500 yds 1166LBs of energy

The "ballistically handicapped" 35Whelen has a MPBR of 307yds on the same 8" kill zone :eek: and 1842 lbs of energy at 500 yds

Drop for the 35W 225 load at 500 yds with a 200yd zero is 47"
Drop for the 30-06 220 load at 500 is 59.4" with the same 200yd zero

So for rough numbers.. 12" less drop and around 650lbs more energy at 500yds, beyond what most guys are shooting game at.

You can cherry pick some higher BC bullets in .308, but a 140FPS advantage isn't going away in 200yds, or 300yds. Yes you can load the 30-06 slightly hotter, but there's guys reporting 2900 with 225s and TAC.

Data courtesy of Strelok Pro.... using the same weather/temp.

Couple of points for the OP.

Factory 35W ammo is underloaded due to the older guns, pumps and autos.
There are lots of ballistic programs on line, don't believe me, run your own data.
Click to expand...
Excellent post with some data that rarely gets presented on the old .35 Whelen. Mine is a 1988 Remington 700 Classic rifle. It was my main stay when out in Colorado and Texas in the late '80's and '90's. Back east in Ky, it kept its reputation for one shot, knock 'em down power.

With it, I've killed several elk and an even half dozen deer over the years. I used 250 gr Grand Slams at 2550 fps for the elk and Sierra or Remington 200 gr Rnd Nose SP's for the deer. Most of the latter were killed right there at 150 yds or less and the elk at 75 to a paced off 250 yds.

I scoped it with a 2-7 Leupold and found it easy to get MOA 3-shot groups after glass bedding the action. It is truly an all-around caliber...more than enough for anything shootable here in the lower 48, and good enough for Alaskan bears if a heavily constructed modern bullet is used....heck even Nosler's justly famous "Partition" would still be a valid choice for these latter villains.

I don't get it out much anymore as the weight is a pound or so heavier than I want at age 77...but that doesn't change its capabilities one bit. Best regards, Rod
 
OLDE RETIRED COASTIE said:
What do ya'll think of the 35 Whelen? I was always told was the poor mans magnum. Right now can get a cva scout for about 400 from Buds. I reload so would be no problem
Click to expand...

Wow....we didn't have to go far into this thread before we're told that small diameter bullets kill as well as large diameter bullets but that large diameter bullets from a Whelen will recoil about the same as smaller diameter bullets of the same weight at higher velocity from a .30 caliber magnum. 🤨

I will absolutely allow that if all you're going to hunt is medium game such as deer, there's really no need for something like a 35 Whelen, but for that matter there's really no need for anything larger than say, a .270 Winchester for such game. However if you're hunting larger game, especially like elk, I believe the Whelen has a distinct advantage. I've used the Whelen on four large NM bulls and didn't recover a single bullet (Barnes 225 gr. TSX), and that included a shallow quartering shot on bull at just over 350 yds. My father used my Whelen and the same bullet on a bull that was close to 100 yds. away, walking straight away, and we did recover that bullet after it had penetrated the entire length of the bull and stopped under the skin at the front of the shoulder.

22s9wkOl.jpg
JhnmG0kl.jpg


One of the things I always appreciated about the Whelen is due to its .358" bullet diameter, is its ability to use an enormous range of bullet weights from 105 gr. lead bullets for plinking all the way up to 280 gr. jacketed bullets. Heck with something like a CVA single shot a fella could load 148 gr. lead SWC's down to 750 fps for small game, practice or plinking.

35W
 
MikeInOr said:
What are you planning on using it for and what do you already have? I always wanted a 35 Whelen and a 25-06 when I was younger. Over the years I gained more of an appreciation for how universal the 30-06 can be.
Click to expand...
The North America trio, 25-06, 30-06, & 35 Whelen! What a great combination of cartridges 🙂
 
35 Whelen said:
Wow....we didn't have to go far into this thread before we're told that small diameter bullets kill as well as large diameter bullets but that large diameter bullets from a Whelen will recoil about the same as smaller diameter bullets of the same weight at higher velocity from a .30 caliber magnum. 🤨

I will absolutely allow that if all you're going to hunt is medium game such as deer, there's really no need for something like a 35 Whelen, but for that matter there's really no need for anything larger than say, a .270 Winchester for such game. However if you're hunting larger game, especially like elk, I believe the Whelen has a distinct advantage. I've used the Whelen on four large NM bulls and didn't recover a single bullet (Barnes 225 gr. TSX), and that included a shallow quartering shot on bull at just over 350 yds. My father used my Whelen and the same bullet on a bull that was close to 100 yds. away, walking straight away, and we did recover that bullet after it had penetrated the entire length of the bull and stopped under the skin at the front of the shoulder.

22s9wkOl.jpg
JhnmG0kl.jpg


One of the things I always appreciated about the Whelen is due to its .358" bullet diameter, is its ability to use an enormous range of bullet weights from 105 gr. lead bullets for plinking all the way up to 280 gr. jacketed bullets. Heck with something like a CVA single shot a fella could load 148 gr. lead SWC's down to 750 fps for small game, practice or plinking.

35W
Click to expand...

Just so you know, you're not discouraging me from getting one. The Lyman Manual (50th) has a load using a 158 grain XTP.
 
when I was stationed in Alaska, twice mind you from 1975-1978, and again 1983-1986, a lot of people were using 35 Whelen on everything from black tail deer, to brown and grizzly bear. Of course that included elk and moose.
A couple of gunsmiths in Anchorage claimed was as good as a 350 Remington Magnum with almost identical ballistics
 
The .35 Whelen Improved has been previously mentioned and briefly discussed on this thread and I feel it deserves more consideration than it usually gets. Especiously for anyone thinking about having a Whelen built because it eleminates a major failing of many Whelen rifles. As the "Improved" implies, it improves the basic case by blowing out the shoulder to a sharper, more decfined profile than standard configuration. The usual appeal of an Improved cartridge is to increase powder capacity somewhat and thereby loading more powder in order to increase velocity. In my experience the increased capacity and velocity is minimal and not worth the bother for a Whelen. Howerver, the sharper shoulder can be of signifcient benefit. Because the Whelen's shallow shoulder tends to contribute to headspace problems, sometimes dangeriously, as some shooters and gunsmiths have discovered, mainly because of sloppy, oversize chambers plus sloppily loaded, poorly or incorrectly sized brass. Especially with GI '06 brass converted to Whelens. These problems do not occur with Remington rifles and ammo, and they shouldn't. But as stated in previous posts, many, perhaps most, .35 Whelens are the products, and problems, of amateur or semi-expert workbenches. Which is why I had my first custom .35 Whelen with improved chambering. It was built on simple, inexensive surplus Mauser action, with a few extra worthile tweets to the action. IMG-5139.jpg IMG-5141.jpg IMG-5159=AA.jpg IMG-5165.jpg IMG-5154-AA.jpg
 
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OLDE RETIRED COASTIE said:
Oklahoma was a wild and wooly place in those days,
Click to expand...
You're not apt to find many 35 Whelen rifles in western Oklahoma because the long shooting distances. On the other hand, hunters in eastern Oklahoma are more apt to own a 35 Whelen because of the tall trees and heavy cover. Oklahoma is like many other States because most of the crime occurs in Oklahoma City and Tulsa. People in the rural areas won't put up with the silly stuff that is occurring today and Oklahoma has a huge prison population because people who do bad things here go to prison. In the rural areas of Oklahoma almost every house has a high powered rifle and the owners know how to use them. Hands on people like farmers, oil field workers and repair people in the trades make good riflemen.
 
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