Quantcast

350 Legend and Ohio deer hunting legality... I don't think it is.

Discussion in 'Hunting' started by mcb, May 3, 2019.

  1. mcb

    mcb Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2008
    Messages:
    1,978
    Location:
    North Alabama
    I guess all my speculations could have been solved with a simple email. :oops:


    Short and to the point, that quote was ODRN's entire email response withholding only the signature of the person that sent it.

    I know its all mute at this point now, but given the number of guys I have seen on the internet that have measured factory 350 Legend bullets at .355, and the Winchester rep at the NRA show saying it was 9mm and a few other article talking about Winchester using 9mm bullet making equipment, SAAMI minimum bore area being identical to 9x19mm etc... there is just enough evidence that if you were one of those "conspiracy-theory" types that you might conjecture that Winchester designed the cartridge as a 9mm cartridge, and only after it was done did someone realized that a 9mm cartridge would not be legal in Ohio, a state that is likely a major target audience for the new cartridge, and post development simply started saying it was .357 caliber to avoid the problem. But that might just be the voices in my head talking crazy talk. :rofl:

    ANYWAY... seems like it will be legal in Ohio, load-up and blast away, sorry for wasting your time... :D
     
    Bfh_auto, H&Hhunter and DM~ like this.
  2. labnoti

    labnoti Member

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2018
    Messages:
    1,281
    It looks like it needs belt.
     
  3. DM~

    DM~ Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2011
    Messages:
    2,802
    Location:
    upper mid west
    Cut a belt in your chamber and make the cases out of 224 Wby. brass... lol

    DM
     
  4. newfalguy101

    newfalguy101 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2005
    Messages:
    1,660
    Location:
    Sutton, Nebraska
    "He indicated that the .357 caliber was very specific and was why 38 Special was legal and 9mm was not."

    I may have an explanation for this...
    38 is bigger than 357, and even the least seasoned LEO knows a 9mm is smaller than a 357, its also NOT a straightwall case.

    Before ya'll get wound up and jump all over me..I KNOW a 38 and 357 are the same diameter, and YOU KNOW they are the same....we cant assume a game and parks guy, who may or may NOT be a shooter, will know that.
     
  5. mcb

    mcb Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2008
    Messages:
    1,978
    Location:
    North Alabama
    This particular ODNR officer knew that 38 special was .357 in caliber. We discussed it at some length. I got the impression he was fairly knowledgeable on firearms.
     
  6. cljohnson24

    cljohnson24 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2018
    Messages:
    2

    I personally spoke at length with ODNR prior to purchasing my .350 Legend approximately 1 month ago and CONFIRMED that IT IS APPROVED FOR DEER SEASON HERE IN OHIO. The caliber was designed and approved as .357 and the boxes state .357 on them.

    The old method of listing specific calibers approved for use in Ohio deer season was changed to criteria stating "all straight walled cartridge calibers from a minimum of .357 to a maximum of .50" and the cartridge caliber of the .350 Legend is .357.
     
  7. cljohnson24

    cljohnson24 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2018
    Messages:
    2
    IMHO..they should've stuck with maintaining a list of approved calibers to avoid confusion like this and Indiana has gone through for years trying to use "criteria" which everyone gets confused by or "wildcats" around...Google Indiana deer rifles and have fun trying to figure that mess out...
     
    Bfh_auto and Loyalist Dave like this.
  8. Hookeye

    Hookeye Member

    Joined:
    May 24, 2015
    Messages:
    2,695
    Indiana deer rifles.........

    Pistol cartridge rifles (PCR) are legal for deer on private and public land.
    They must have a case length of 1.16 to 1.8" and be .35 cal or larger.
    There is NO straight wall case mandate.

    High Power rifles are under a test period, are legal for private land only.
    They must have a case length of 1.16 to 3.0" and .24 cal and larger.
    And there is a ammo limit of 10 rounds afield.

    Some cartridges that meet the specs have been explicitly called out as not legal.

    ...............................

    Not much of a mess IMHO.
    Before HP rifle became legal we trimmed .35 rems to meet PCR spec.
    Dandy it was.
    Now on private ground we don't have to trim .35 rem. But if hunting public we do.
    Eh, I'll run full length .35 rem in my Remington 760 and use it on private land.
    If I want to hunt public will take my .35 rem Contender pistol.
    Same ammo, shoots great.

    Handgun spec different than rifle spec :)
     
    horsemen61 likes this.
  9. Hookeye

    Hookeye Member

    Joined:
    May 24, 2015
    Messages:
    2,695
    The problem w the Indiana regs was the IDNR political stunt where they took a line from the HP rifle stuff and
    misapplied it to the PCR reg.

    Evidently many people can't follow basic outline format, or understand context.
    It got a lot of Fudds wound up.

    But it was fixed before the hunting season.
    Much ado about nothing.

    Outgoing DNR head was butthurt about legislature getting HP rifle passed and wanted to be a jerk.
    Nothing more.

    The fact that many deer hunters, of some supposed education and professional ability..............couldn't see it for what it blatantly was, even when you cut and pasted the freakin' law..............was unsettling.
     
  10. Hookeye

    Hookeye Member

    Joined:
    May 24, 2015
    Messages:
    2,695
    No straight wall case mandate for PCR.
    Wildcatters had some fun.
    Eh, not many play that game.
    Not worth worrying about.

    Dtech made .358 WSSM AR uppers.
     
  11. Hookeye

    Hookeye Member

    Joined:
    May 24, 2015
    Messages:
    2,695
    I had ol Bob at BK Bullet Casting trim and load some .35 rem to meet the PCR spec.
    They worked fine. For those that don't reload, there are ways to play the game.
    Not cheap, but not expensive when you figure out the actual cost of a hunt (like missed overtime at work, gas burned etc).


    2015-131gross.jpg
     
    horsemen61 likes this.
  12. Hookeye

    Hookeye Member

    Joined:
    May 24, 2015
    Messages:
    2,695
    I'm still thinking PCR rifle of some sort.
    Pops has a fingergroove .44 mag Ruger (I've shot one deer w it).

    The .350 Legend looked interesting. Got a kid w iffy shoulder. Had surgery 2 months ago.

    Buddy just got his bbl to slap on an upper.
    See how it shoots. Factory ammo seems a bit sloppy from what info he sent me.
     
    horsemen61 likes this.
  13. Hookeye

    Hookeye Member

    Joined:
    May 24, 2015
    Messages:
    2,695
    If getting a RAR I'll go .450 BM instead :)
    For me, not the kid LOL
     
    22BR likes this.
  14. mrawesome22-250

    mrawesome22-250 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2007
    Messages:
    132
    I was looking at 350 Legend load data on Hodgdon's site and realized the bullets they are using are .355" diameter. I was confused since the SAAMI spec calls for a .357" bullet. I e-mailed Hodgdon and asked why they were using 9mm bullets in the 350 Legend. I asked if this was a mistake on their part.

    The answer I got was that initially, they tried using the .357" bullets that the spec calls for, but they would not chamber in a SAAMI spec chamber. So they got ahold of Winchester and Winchester stated that .355" bullets are what they use and is what they are sticking with. The Hodgdon rep said this is the first time they have ever encountered a cartridge who's manufacturer deviates from it's own submitted diagrams.

    The ODNR regulation on acceptable deer cartridges states "All straight-walled cartridge calibers from a minimum of .357 to a maximum of .50".

    As far as I'm concerned this 350 Legend is not legal to hunt deer with in Ohio and I would not take a chance using one until something official is put out by the ODNR.
     
  15. mcb

    mcb Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2008
    Messages:
    1,978
    Location:
    North Alabama
    See my post #27 in this thread. The ODNR responded to my email inquiry and informed me that 350 legend would be legal for deer hunting in Ohio.

    I have stated this in other threads on 350 Legend, and my slightly cracked conspiracy theory is that 350 Legend was originally designed as a 9mm (.3555) diameter rifle cartridge and only after they were nearly done with the development did they realize that a 9mm straight-wall rifle cartridge was going to run afoul of several hunting regulations like Ohio and they ex-post-facto changed its nominal diameter to .357 to "fix" the problem. Tin foil hat optional...

    350 Legend, 9mm Luger and 357 Magnum all have the same nominal bore and groove diameter. Bore: .346, Grooves: .355. Now both 9mm Luger and 357 Magnum have +.004 tolerance on those dimension. The 350 Legend has only a +.002 on its nominal bore and groove.

    Bullet diameters are list as:
    9mm Luger: .3555
    350 Legend: .3570
    357 Magnum: .3580 (.3590 for lead)
    All have a -.003 tolerance on the bullet diameter.

    But if you look at minimal bore area in the SAAMI specs 350 Legend is the same as 9 Luger and both are smaller than 357 Mag.

    I would love to see some people take their 350 Legend barrels and slug them or cast them with Cerrosafe, especially early production barrels. That would be interesting measurements to have out there.
     
  16. mrawesome22-250

    mrawesome22-250 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2007
    Messages:
    132
    I did read the emails you received but I still won't take the chance. The official rules and regulations book says .357 to .500" and that's what I'm gonna go with until printed otherwise. My luck, I would kill a new State record and here would come all the scrutiny and my buck would be denied and I'd be in jail haha. I know that is far fetched but you never know and I don't trust the government as far as I can throw it.

    Your tin foil hat theory might be correct but what I was thinking was, why would they develop a cartridge capable of velocities in the ranges of 2000fps around 9mm bullets? That was what I asked Hodgdon also. I asked if they realized that pistol bullets, designed for impact velocities in the high hundreds to low 1000fps range, are going to fail miserably on game at velocities of 2000fps and above. They said they realized this but since heavy .357" bullets simply would not physically work, they called Winchester and were advised to use .355" bullets.

    Oh well. I still have my 45-70 and 45Colt. I was just looking for something else to handload for and thought this was an interesting cartridge until 9mm bullets came into the mix.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2019
  17. DM~

    DM~ Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2011
    Messages:
    2,802
    Location:
    upper mid west
    1. It will be legal, get the tin foil hat! lol

    2. They WILL design bullets for it that will hold up to higher speeds, why do they only have to use bullets that are available for pistol use??

    DM
     
  18. mrawesome22-250

    mrawesome22-250 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2007
    Messages:
    132
    ...
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2019
  19. DM~

    DM~ Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2011
    Messages:
    2,802
    Location:
    upper mid west
    Bullets will be available, as soon as the bullet makers catch up...

    I just don't see the problem, except some folks don't have any patience... lol

    DM
     
  20. Slamfire

    Slamfire Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2006
    Messages:
    10,113
    Location:
    Alabama
    You are better off using a cartridge whose caliber starts off with a "4" than a "3" in Ohio. Yes, you may be right, yes the bullet diameter may be 0.358, but the barrel says 350 Legend. And you may end up proving your case in court, after the game warden takes your firearm and truck.

    Don't assume that any lawman is a firearm expert, or really understands the laws he is enforcing. A bud of mine was caught speeding, told the Officer that he had guns in the vehicle (he was coming back from an XTC match) and the Officer called in the "serial number" of his AR15. The Officer called in only the numbers, ignoring the letters of the "serial number". The serial number was an alpha numeric number, like A2345C67. Something like that. Well, what do you know, at least seven firearms with the "serial number" 234567 had been reported stolen, and bud went to jail that night. And then, after friends bailed him out, he had to go to court, weeks later, and a whole day off from work later, to get everything cleared up and his stuff back.

    Now, if the barrel is stamped, 40, 41, 43, 44, 45, or any other number larger than 357, such as 360, you might pass go without having to lay down your get out of jail card.
     
  21. mcb

    mcb Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2008
    Messages:
    1,978
    Location:
    North Alabama
  22. Hookeye

    Hookeye Member

    Joined:
    May 24, 2015
    Messages:
    2,695
    Just drive to your Ohio deer hunting spot ....56 in a 55.

    Itll make up for any .350 legend legal drama
     
  23. Hookeye

    Hookeye Member

    Joined:
    May 24, 2015
    Messages:
    2,695
    Dont care what Winchester says. DNR folks can easily make an allowance for the cartridge. Maybe late for legislation or hunting rules print outs. Can still post something on site and in general media.
     
  24. Waconut

    Waconut Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2019
    Messages:
    1
    I e-mail the Ohio DNR Wildlife division and asked if the .350 Legend cartridge is legal for deer hunting in the state of Ohio. I received the answer yesterday. Yes the .350 Legend is legal for use in Ohio. I have the e-mail saved on my phone and I will be ordering my rifle this weekend.
     
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice