.357/.38 Uberti Cattleman and Winchester 1873 Rifle ammo

[GFizz]

I have a .357mag/.38sp Uberti Cattleman revolver. I’m getting a Winchester 1873 Deluxe Sporting rifle in the same caliber.
Any recommendations on the best ammo brands, grain, round/flat nose, etc... that I can use in both?

Using mostly for target, maybe hunting with the rifle, and the occasional varmint while riding my horse.
Thanks.

 

[peacemaker45]

The biggest consideration is to use a flat point bullet in a tubular magazine. With the tip of the bullet pressed against the primer in front of it, no pointiness need apply.

Beyond that, I don't think I can help you much; when I was shooting those sorts of guns all the time, it was with handloads for CAS competition. That load was a soft cast 125 gr truncated cone, in a .38 Spl case, pushed to about 750 fps from a 4 5/8" revolver barrel, by a charge of VV N320 and a Federal primer. That's hotter than the majority of CAS shooters loaded, but I found I needed some recoil, if only for feedback. Also, it made good insurance against blind and deaf spotters, as they would ring the steel with some authority.

For factory ammo and real world usage, I'm not sure what to tell you, as I almost never used any of it.

 

[J-Bar]

RNFP and truncated cone projectiles feed more reliably in the rifle. Bullets with a ridge or edge, like wadcutters, semi-wadcutters, and the classic Keith profiles, sometimes catch on the chamber mouth.

Some ‘73s feed all 38s reliably, but some individual rifles can be sensitive to overall cartridge length. Light bullets in a .38 case are sometimes too short and can block the carrier as they protrude from the magazine. The phenomenon and its cures have been discussed by cowboy action guru Larsen E. Pettifogger in the attached PDF file.

A quick fix for length sensitivity is just use .357 brass for all your reloads, if you reload.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

Picture is worth a thousand words department:



Revolvers don't care about bullet style. They can shoot anything. Not so with a tubular magazine rifle. You don't want to load cartridges with pointy ended bullets into a tubular magazine. Not with a point resting directly on the primer of the round in front. Left to right in this photo are a round from Federal 'American Eagle' with a 158 grain Lead Round Nose bullet, a HSM Cowboy Action cartridge with a 158 grain Round Nose Flat Point Bullet, one of my reloads with a 125 grain Truncated Cone bullet, and one of my reloads with a 158 grain Semi-Wadcutter bullet. That Round Nose bullet is really not very round is it? Kind of pointy. I would not put one of those into a rifle with a tubular magazine. I would put any of the others into a rifle with a tubular magazine. The flat point is known as a Metplat. Theoretically you want it to be at least as large in diameter as the primer sitting in front of it. 38 Special is loaded with Small Pistol Primers, and they run around .170 in diameter. Semi Wadcutter bullets may or may not be problematic in a lever gun. The sharp shoulder, meant to cut a clean hole in a paper target, may or may not hang up feeding into the chamber of a rifle. Rifles with tilting carriers, such as the Winchester Model 1892 or Marlin Model 1894 may have problems as the cartridge rides up the carrier and into the chamber. That shoulder may catch on the edge of the chamber. Not so much with a '73, which presents the cartridge straight on to the chamber, much like a torpedo being shoved into a torpedo tube in a submarine.

With a rifle there are two factors to be aware of with pointy bullets. One is how the rifle will jump back in recoil, shoving the cartridges forward, the other is how every time a cartridge is stripped out of the magazine the follower shoves all the cartridges back. In my experience, the forces exerted on a primer are actually greater when the follower shoves them all back, than with recoil. That has pretty much been with mild 38 Special loads. I do have a 357 Mag Marlin 1894, but I have not fired a whole lot of 357 Mag ammo out of it. I will say I most definitely would not put a pointy nosed 357 Mag cartridge in the magazine of my Marlin.

Brands?

That's up to you to peruse the on line catalogs. Midway USA has a good selection of ammo.

 

[JohnB-40]

I have the same caliber combination with a Vaquero and Winchester/Miroku 73 carbine. The round I really enjoy shooting from both is Black Hills Cowboy Action 158 gr conical flat point. Extremely accurate with both firearms.

 

[GFizz]

Howdy

Picture is worth a thousand words department:

View attachment 897201

Revolvers don't care about bullet style. They can shoot anything. Not so with a tubular magazine rifle. You don't want to load cartridges with pointy ended bullets into a tubular magazine. Not with a point resting directly on the primer of the round in front. Left to right in this photo are a round from Federal 'American Eagle' with a 158 grain Lead Round Nose bullet, a HSM Cowboy Action cartridge with a 158 grain Round Nose Flat Point Bullet, one of my reloads with a 125 grain Truncated Cone bullet, and one of my reloads with a 158 grain Semi-Wadcutter bullet. That Round Nose bullet is really not very round is it? Kind of pointy. I would not put one of those into a rifle with a tubular magazine. I would put any of the others into a rifle with a tubular magazine. The flat point is known as a Metplat. Theoretically you want it to be at least as large in diameter as the primer sitting in front of it. 38 Special is loaded with Small Pistol Primers, and they run around .170 in diameter. Semi Wadcutter bullets may or may not be problematic in a lever gun. The sharp shoulder, meant to cut a clean hole in a paper target, may or may not hang up feeding into the chamber of a rifle. Rifles with tilting carriers, such as the Winchester Model 1892 or Marlin Model 1894 may have problems as the cartridge rides up the carrier and into the chamber. That shoulder may catch on the edge of the chamber. Not so much with a '73, which presents the cartridge straight on to the chamber, much like a torpedo being shoved into a torpedo tube in a submarine.

With a rifle there are two factors to be aware of with pointy bullets. One is how the rifle will jump back in recoil, shoving the cartridges forward, the other is how every time a cartridge is stripped out of the magazine the follower shoves all the cartridges back. In my experience, the forces exerted on a primer are actually greater when the follower shoves them all back, than with recoil. That has pretty much been with mild 38 Special loads. I do have a 357 Mag Marlin 1894, but I have not fired a whole lot of 357 Mag ammo out of it. I will say I most definitely would not put a pointy nosed 357 Mag cartridge in the magazine of my Marlin.

Brands?

That's up to you to peruse the on line catalogs. Midway USA has a good selection of ammo.

Thanks. Great info. Appreciate the time.

 

[GFizz]

I have the same caliber combination with a Vaquero and Winchester/Miroku 73 carbine. The round I really enjoy shooting from both is Black Hills Cowboy Action 158 gr conical flat point. Extremely accurate with both firearms.

John B: Thanks. I looked on their site. Do you shoot both .357 and .38 special in both or just .38’s?

 

[Kayaker 1960]

I have a Marlin 1894c, .357 Mag carbine. I love the rifle, really fun to shoot!
I do find that .38 specials and .357 magnum have a very different point of impact, about 4 inches at 25 yards. This makes it not practical to shoot both rounds interchangeably.

 

[Crunchy Frog]

I have a Uberti 1873 rifle in .357. It runs fine with .,38 Special ammo that I load with 105 or 125 grain TCFP bullets at a COAL of 1.45" and with 158 grain RNFP bullets which are a little longer. Avoid SWCs and other bullet shapes with an abrupt shoulder. The carrier of the 1866/1873 more or less dictates the cartridge length it will handle.

 

[sabbfan]

In my 357 Henry I used to have I used coated lead Acme RNFP 158 grain in 38 special over HP38 and in 357 mag 158 grain XTP over Winchester 296. Both were very accurate, fed perfectly, used the 357 load successfully on deer. The 38 special was like shooting a 22, quiet and no recoil. Those loads also work fine in my Ruger Security Six.