I'm a longtime shotgun shooter and more recently a handgun shooter but I don't know much about rifles . My question is , when people say the 357 carbine is good out to 100 yards , what exactly does that mean ? Does the round drop off drasticly after 100 yds. ? Does it just run out of power ? Is the 100 yards the limit for hunting ? I like the 357 lever because I have 357 revolvers . I like the looks and more importantly the way the lever guns fit me . Unfortunately the only range I have access to right now is only 25 yds long so I can't experiment with longer ranges . I don't plan on doing any hunting with the gun . Its use is for some target shooting but mostly intended for my just in case the tshtf gun and just because I always wanted a lever gun . I've heard that the 357 carbine is close balisitcly to the old 30 cal . M1 carbine , is this true ? If it is true thats good enough for me .
357 mag lever gun ???
- Thread starter Handyman
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I don't hunt with mine, so I'll leave it to others to comment on what kind of power remains after 100 yards. I too have heard the .30 M1 carbine comparison.
Here's a few older threads I've bookmarked on this (or a related) subject . Might be some useful reading for you:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=160161
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=171899
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=217125
That being said: Marlin 1894c with aftermarket XS sights = Lots of fun!
Here's a few older threads I've bookmarked on this (or a related) subject . Might be some useful reading for you:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=160161
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=171899
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=217125
That being said: Marlin 1894c with aftermarket XS sights = Lots of fun!
GotGlock
Member
Its usually the effective range, in this case, 100 yards. You can still make a kill over 100 yards but its iffy. Heres the military definition:Maximum effective range is the maximum range within which a weapon is effective against its intended target.
epijunkie67
Member
The .357 magnum round out of a carbine is more powerful than a 30 carbine round at all distances. For a quick and dirty comparison I pulled up the ballistics on both rounds from the winchester site.
Rifle Ballistics for .357 magnum with 158 gr. Super-X® Jacketed Soft Point
Distance (yds) Velocity (fps) Energy (ft.lbs.) Trajectory Short , Long (in.)
Muzzle...............1830...............1175............................-..............-
50 - - 0.0 -
100...................1427................715..........................-2.4 ............0
150 - - -9.1 -5.5
200....................1138...............454...........................-21..........-16.2
250 - -- -39.2 -33.1
Rifle Ballistics for 30 carbine with 110 gr. Super-X® Hollow Soft Point
Distance (yds) Velocity (fps) Energy (ft.lbs.) Trajectory Short , Long (in.)
Muzzle...............1990..............967.................................-...........-
50 - - 0.9 -
100...................1567..............600................................ 0.......... 0
150 - - -4.5 -4.5
200...................1236...............373.............................-13.5.....-13.5
250 - -- -28.3 -28.3
And yes, these are rifle ballistics, not pistol. For comparison here are the pistol ballistics from the same web site.
Handgun Ballistics for .357 magnum with 158 gr. Super-X® Jacketed Soft Point
Distance (yds) Velocity (fps) Energy (ft.lbs.)
Muzzle...............1235..............535
50.....................1104..............428
100....................1015.............361
And just for fun the energy levels of a 44 magnum out of a pistol to compare it all with using a 240 gr. Super-X® Hollow Soft Point
Distance (yds) Velocity (fps) Energy (ft.lbs.)
Muzzle........................1180......................741
50..............................1081......................623
Notice, the .357 magnum round out of a lever rifle has more energy at the muzzle than a 44 mag out of a pistol does. In fact, it has almost as much energy at 100 yards as a 44 mag does at the muzzle out of a pistol. I've never heard anyone complain about their 44 mag revolver not having enough "take down power".
Is the .357 lever gun as powerful as a real rifle round like .223 or .308? No. But it IS a decent carbine round, as carbine rounds go. Although a lot of people will tell you there are better SHTF rifle choices out there, and there are, I don't think it's a bad choice to make. Especially if you don't shoot rifles much and already own revolvers in the same caliber.
For more extensive discussion about this topic check out the armory subforum of http://neardeathexperiments.com.
Rifle Ballistics for .357 magnum with 158 gr. Super-X® Jacketed Soft Point
Distance (yds) Velocity (fps) Energy (ft.lbs.) Trajectory Short , Long (in.)
Muzzle...............1830...............1175............................-..............-
50 - - 0.0 -
100...................1427................715..........................-2.4 ............0
150 - - -9.1 -5.5
200....................1138...............454...........................-21..........-16.2
250 - -- -39.2 -33.1
Rifle Ballistics for 30 carbine with 110 gr. Super-X® Hollow Soft Point
Distance (yds) Velocity (fps) Energy (ft.lbs.) Trajectory Short , Long (in.)
Muzzle...............1990..............967.................................-...........-
50 - - 0.9 -
100...................1567..............600................................ 0.......... 0
150 - - -4.5 -4.5
200...................1236...............373.............................-13.5.....-13.5
250 - -- -28.3 -28.3
And yes, these are rifle ballistics, not pistol. For comparison here are the pistol ballistics from the same web site.
Handgun Ballistics for .357 magnum with 158 gr. Super-X® Jacketed Soft Point
Distance (yds) Velocity (fps) Energy (ft.lbs.)
Muzzle...............1235..............535
50.....................1104..............428
100....................1015.............361
And just for fun the energy levels of a 44 magnum out of a pistol to compare it all with using a 240 gr. Super-X® Hollow Soft Point
Distance (yds) Velocity (fps) Energy (ft.lbs.)
Muzzle........................1180......................741
50..............................1081......................623
Notice, the .357 magnum round out of a lever rifle has more energy at the muzzle than a 44 mag out of a pistol does. In fact, it has almost as much energy at 100 yards as a 44 mag does at the muzzle out of a pistol. I've never heard anyone complain about their 44 mag revolver not having enough "take down power".
Is the .357 lever gun as powerful as a real rifle round like .223 or .308? No. But it IS a decent carbine round, as carbine rounds go. Although a lot of people will tell you there are better SHTF rifle choices out there, and there are, I don't think it's a bad choice to make. Especially if you don't shoot rifles much and already own revolvers in the same caliber.
For more extensive discussion about this topic check out the armory subforum of http://neardeathexperiments.com.
115grfmj
Member
Great cartridge in a litght handy carbine....
Such as my marlin 1894c, Rifle balistics through my chrony. S&B 158gr sp get about 1900fps have a B.C. of .170 doesn't drop down to the muzzle energy of a 4" revolver until 170 yards. Sight to hit three inches high at 100yds, and it's a dead on hold until 175 yards. There is more to this rounds killing power than velocity though, it a relatively heavy flat nosed round, that penetrates very deeply. I wouldn't hesitate to use it on eastern whitetail out to 150yds,
and black bear to 75yds. Here's a hint you don't need a .300 Wm to kill whitetail......
I didn't even mention Buffalo Bore's .357 Heavy loads......
158grs at 2300 fps from the marlin.....
180gr wide flat point at 1800fps....
Nasty Suckers
Such as my marlin 1894c, Rifle balistics through my chrony. S&B 158gr sp get about 1900fps have a B.C. of .170 doesn't drop down to the muzzle energy of a 4" revolver until 170 yards. Sight to hit three inches high at 100yds, and it's a dead on hold until 175 yards. There is more to this rounds killing power than velocity though, it a relatively heavy flat nosed round, that penetrates very deeply. I wouldn't hesitate to use it on eastern whitetail out to 150yds,
and black bear to 75yds. Here's a hint you don't need a .300 Wm to kill whitetail......
I didn't even mention Buffalo Bore's .357 Heavy loads......
158grs at 2300 fps from the marlin.....
180gr wide flat point at 1800fps....
Nasty Suckers
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chris in va
Member
Too bad they don't make a Lever-evolution round for the 357...or do they?
bogie
Member
The only way I'd use my .357 lever gun for deer would be with a 180 grain JHP, preferably from Hornady. I load them myself - Load is W296, and you can figure stuff out from there.
GooseGestapo
Member
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115grFMJ's comments are right on.
I've killed deer with everything from .22rf to 12ga shotgun (buck and slugs). The .357 is adequate to 150yds or more.
Effective range has more to do with the marksman than the cartridges' capability.
Two days ago I was shooting my Win M94 at 100yds and another shooter on the range commented about the "slap" the bullets were making upon hitting the berm and asked if it was a .45/70 ??
No, just 160gr FN cast bullets at a m/v of 1,600fps.
(13.5gr Alliant#2400, quite accurate !)
They were kicking up soft ball sized divots in the moist soft red clay when they hit.
More than enough to put down a deer or similar sized target.
Question is, how far can you hit what you're shooting at ????
The trajectory is more of a limiting factor than simply velocity or energy.
I've killed deer with everything from .22rf to 12ga shotgun (buck and slugs). The .357 is adequate to 150yds or more.
Effective range has more to do with the marksman than the cartridges' capability.
Two days ago I was shooting my Win M94 at 100yds and another shooter on the range commented about the "slap" the bullets were making upon hitting the berm and asked if it was a .45/70 ??
No, just 160gr FN cast bullets at a m/v of 1,600fps.
(13.5gr Alliant#2400, quite accurate !)
They were kicking up soft ball sized divots in the moist soft red clay when they hit.
More than enough to put down a deer or similar sized target.
Question is, how far can you hit what you're shooting at ????
The trajectory is more of a limiting factor than simply velocity or energy.
epijunkie67
Member
No, they don't. I emailed them when they first brought them out and they emailed me back stating they had no intention of making anything in .357. Said the Ogive was too short. Here's the thread I started on this topic.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=174689
Brian Williams
Moderator Emeritus
Tis an old pic
But it is the favorite and most used long gun in my inventory.
But it is the favorite and most used long gun in my inventory.
mainmech48
Member
IMO, this has about as much to do with external ballistics as it does with skill. The blunt-nosed projectiles necessary for safe use in tubular magazines shed velocity relatively quickly, as their ballistic coefficients aren't very high.
With any firearm, accurate bullet placement is the single most important factor in effecting quick, humane kills on game. This becomes increasingly critical as the amount of kinetic energy available relative to the mass of the game animal decreases.
100 yds. is most likely a figure chosen because it represents a reasonable, if arbitrary, upper limit of where both the average skill level for accurate shot placement with iron sights and remaining energy levels with factory .357 loads are likely to coincide well enough to do the job humanely.
With any firearm, accurate bullet placement is the single most important factor in effecting quick, humane kills on game. This becomes increasingly critical as the amount of kinetic energy available relative to the mass of the game animal decreases.
100 yds. is most likely a figure chosen because it represents a reasonable, if arbitrary, upper limit of where both the average skill level for accurate shot placement with iron sights and remaining energy levels with factory .357 loads are likely to coincide well enough to do the job humanely.
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