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.357 mag vs .357 sig chronograph results

Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by dodo bird, May 27, 2020.

  1. dodo bird

    dodo bird Member

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    Got a chance to go to the range today with a buddy. He brought his Glock 32 in .357 sig and his Desert Eagle chambered in .357 mag. Ammo used in magnum was Winchester 125g target loads and Hornady American Gunner. Both loads were 125 grain. The Win averaged 1356 FPS with ft lbs of 510. AG Hornady was 1378 FPS with 527 ft lbs. Then we shot the Glock 32 with WWB 125 grain. Average 1301 FPS with 470 ft lbs. I wish we had some hotter .357 sig ammo to try. Barrel length was 4 in for Glock and 6 in for DE. I was surprised at how close the sig was to the magnum especially with the short barrel. I don’t own either of these calibers but I see a .357 sig in my future. Had a great time and some gas station bbq sandwiches didn’t hurt the day either.
     

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  2. WrongHanded
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    WrongHanded Contributing Member

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    I have two .357 Sig loads. One is a 124gr FMJ-FP. The other is a 125gr Gold Dot. From a 4" barrel they get 1425fps and 1400fps, respectively. The Gold Dot load is straight from Alliant. The FMJ-FP is from a Lyman manual using a different bullet. Nothing special.
     
  3. GarrettJ

    GarrettJ Member

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    Well, the .357 Sig was an attempt to replicate the ballistics of a 4" .357 Mag revolver in an autoloader. And with bullet weights up to 125 gr., it actually does a pretty good job of it. The Magnum pulls ahead pretty quickly when you start looking at heavier bullets, and I don't know that there are really any factory loads that go any heavier than 125 gr. anyway. But that bullet weight at those velocities is nothing to sneeze at, no matter what cartridge is pushing it.

    Having said that, the Desert Eagle in your picture appears to be the lightweight L5 model. It's actually got a 5" barrel, not the 6" barrel of the full sized MK-XIX Desert Eagle. And the porting at the end of the barrel effectively reduces the rifled length by another inch. So you actually have a fairly straight-up comparison between the 4" Glock barrel and the effective 4" DE barrel.

    I usually load 158 gr. bullets in .357 Mag, but I've shot some of the 125s over the chronograph. For comparison, my 125 loads using AA#9 give me around 1380 fps. from the L5, where some 125 gr. Winchester ammo was running 1450 fps. in one barrel in the 6" gun, and 1515 fps. in another. Not the same ammo, but it gives you some idea. Federal 158 gr. JSP does 1268 fps. from my L5, and 1405 fps. from the full-sized gun. Depending on what powder I'm using, I get a 200 to 300 fps. increase in the 6" gun vs. the L5.

    The only .357 Sig ammo I've shot over the chronograph is some Sig brand 125 gr. FMJ, which averaged 1410 fps. from a Glock 22 with a .357 Sig conversion barrel.

    So yes - for heavy bullets the Magnum is still on top. But for 125 gr. self defense loads, the .357 Sig is going to do pretty much the same thing, but with less blast and recoil.
     
  4. dodo bird

    dodo bird Member

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    Thanks for the education. I didn’t realize it was a shorter barrel. Fun gun to shoot.
     
  5. GarrettJ

    GarrettJ Member

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    It is a lot of fun! And the muzzle brake gives it a very different feel as compared to the full-size no-brake gun.

    You can see some of the differences below.
    KgKUb6Mh.jpg
     
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  6. fxvr5

    fxvr5 Member

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    S&B has a 140 grain 357 SIG load, and Double Tap has a 180 grain 357 SIG load.
     
  7. fxvr5

    fxvr5 Member

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    The Winchester 125 gr 357 magnum load is a watered down version. You were shooting the WinClean ammo, which is rated for 1370 fps from a 4" vented barrel. Normal full power 125 gr 357 Mag is rated for 1450 fps from the same barrel.

    The Hornady 357 magnum 125 American gunner is rated at 1500 fps but from a 8" barrel.

    The Winchester 357 SIG ammo is rated for 1350 fps from a 4" barrel.
     
  8. Shane in MT

    Shane in MT Member

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    Last time I looked, Underwood has 147gr hollow point loads.
     
  9. dodo bird

    dodo bird Member

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    Yep. I’ve never played with the .357 sig before. It was more pleasant to shoot than expected.
     
  10. Arkansas Paul

    Arkansas Paul Member

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    Here is a good video comparing the two.
    Keep in mind that his videos do provide very basic information, geared to the folks who don't already know a lot of it like we likely do.
    Some hate Paul, I love his videos. But anyway, he does some actual shooting, chrono, and other testing that is interesting.

     
  11. dodo bird

    dodo bird Member

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    Who would hate Paul? He makes great videos!
     
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  12. barnetmill

    barnetmill Member

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    A more interesting comparison to me since we are talking glocks is to compare the +P+ 9x19 to the .357 sig in glocks with barrels of the same length. For such things I use factory ammo for top loads.

    If it is short barreled magnum revolver vs glock in .357, the G33 wins hands down. The glock is easier on the recoil for me. It is flat and over all more compact.
    Actually 3 inch barrel revolver to be fair should also add the length of the cylincer.
     
  13. fxvr5

    fxvr5 Member

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    No one does that.
     
  14. mjsdwash

    mjsdwash Member

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    my 357 does 158 at 1550 for 840 ft lb with a 4-1/2 barrel (GP-100) using Buffalo Bore over a Chrony F-1. The Sig is more along the lines of "357 reduced recoil". Its closer to 9mm+P+, which I was able to get 125 gr to 1250 from a 5" barrel fairly easily, with published data using Unique powder (wont share the load, its no longer published). 357 is the most watered down round out there, even passing the 8 Mauser. Loaded to its potential its in the same class as the big magnums for what it can do.
     
  15. fxvr5

    fxvr5 Member

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    9mm +P+ from a 4" S&W M&P barrel:

    Federal 115 +P+ = 1293 fps
    Winchester 127 +P+ = 1271 fps

    I don't have a 4" 357 SIG barrel. They are rated for a 125 grain bullet at 1350 fps. I do have a 4.9" 357 SIG barrel and 125 grain bullets run at 1450 fps, so they should easily make 1350 from a 4" barrel.
     
  16. barnetmill

    barnetmill Member

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    barnetmill said:
    Actually 3 inch barrel revolver to be fair should also add the length of the cylincer.
    Just because no one does that does not negate my comment and of course I know no one does that.
    I wonder just how much velocity one could get in an automatic pistol with 3/4 inch of free bore.
     
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  17. Garandimal

    Garandimal Member

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    Location:
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    Have a LWD 5.3" Bbl. for my GLOCK G23.4's.

    Shoot either the 140 gr. S&B FMJ-FP at ~ 1350 fps, or the Hornady Custom 147 gr. HXP load at somewhat over 1300 fps.

    The HDY-XTP load is a proprietary 147 gr. bullet, w/ a cannelure, like a resized 158 gr. revolver bullet.

    It is not in their catalog and can take both the recoil and extra energy of the .357Sig w/o bullet setback or over-expansion.

    Both loads are good field rounds - the XTP more for hunting.




    GR
     
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  18. CDW4ME

    CDW4ME Member

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    5 shot averages with factory ammo from my pistols:
    Glock 32:
    Winchester Ranger T 125 gr. @ 1,340 fps / 499# KE
    Speer Gold Dot 125 gr. @ 1,344 fps / 501# KE
    Federal HST 125 gr. @ 1,358 fps / 512# KE
    Glock 31: (Glock 22 with Lone Wolf 357 Sig barrel)
    Speer Gold Dot 125 @ 1,363 fps / 516# KE
    Federal HST 125 @ 1,385 fps / 533# KE
    Ranger T 125 @ 1,389 fps / 536# KE

    I agree with post above about factoring cylinder if comparing to a revolver. The 31 more fairly compares with a 4'' revolver.
     
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  19. Chuck R.

    Chuck R. Member

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    Speer 357Sig 125 GDHP factory gets 1386 out of my 3.6" barreled HK P2000 and I've duplicated it for my practice loads using Longshot. the 1st Longshot load I worked up went to 1420 out of the 3.6" barrel and I loaded it down some to mirror the factory load.
     
  20. js8588

    js8588 Member

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  21. WrongHanded
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    WrongHanded Contributing Member

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    If you want to include the cylinder length for a revolver, you have to consider a few things.

    The cylinder is often quite a bit longer than the cartridge. The revolver cartridge in this case is quite a bit longer than the auto cartridge. And the gas loss from the Barrel/Cylinder gap should probably be taken into account. A bullet from a .357 Magnum has to travel farther to get to the rifling than a bullet from a .357 Sig. And it has to go through the throats, then across a gap (losing pressure behind it) then into the forcing cone.

    A better way might be to measure the rifled length of the barrel.
     
  22. fxvr5

    fxvr5 Member

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  23. WrongHanded
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    WrongHanded Contributing Member

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  24. Dragonfly

    Dragonfly Member

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    Since the slide is locked until the bullet has left the barrel I’m thinking that not allowing the slide to reciprocate would not have any effect on muzzle velocity.
     
  25. WrongHanded
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    WrongHanded Contributing Member

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    Guess I better do some research on how autos work, and what force exactly gets the slide moving.
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2020
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