357 Magnum Load Questions

[bersaguy]

Ok, I have a nice soft plinking load worked up in 38spl. Now I'd like to work up some for 357 to fire though a 4" Ruger Security Six. Given the primer situation, I don't really want to do all the iterations that I would typically do for a load work up, so I'm hoping to stand on the shoulders of giants and get a jump on the load development.

What I have to work with:
125g Hornaday XTP
130g Cast powder coated (BHN 16)
160g Cast powder coated (BHN 16)
Unique
Bullseye
Power Pistol
H110
CFE-P

What I'd like to have at the end is a round that would be effective for self defense, and/or effective for use on wild hogs. I'm not terribly interested in light loads for paper targets, and these wouldn't be the primary load used in this revolver. Question being, is the 125 XTP the obvious choice here, or would I be better served with the heavier cast. My instinct would tell me to go with about 19g of h110 under the 125 XTP, just curious about your experiences. Also, I only have 1lb of h110 and some 30 carbine that needs to be loaded.

 

[bullseye308]

The 125 xtp is always a good choice, as is the heavy cast but you mentioned hogs as a possibility so I’d get the 160 to go pretty quickly and call it good.

 

[Bfh_auto]

125 xtp is a poor choice for hogs. I personally had 3 failures to penetrate to the vitals.
Since then I've switched to a 180 cast.
158 or heavier with a max charge of H110 is my preferred.
I didn't see the 30 carbine part. Unique will get a pretty good load in 357 also. I believe that was one of it's original powders of choice.

 

[.38 Special]

Fifteen grains of H110 behind the 160 cast would be (and often is) my choice. The load needs a maximum crimp, but gives top-end performance. (As always with H110, you don't want to reduce the load. You can go up to 16 grains, but in my experience 15 is more consistent.)

<edit> I'm assuming your 160s are some kind of semiwadcutter. If they're something weird, like truncated cone etc, then the 125s might be better.

 

[.308 Norma]

Question being, is the 125 XTP the obvious choice here, or would I be better served with the heavier cast.

I've never even seen a wild hog, but from what I've read about them, a 125 XTP wouldn't be my "obvious choice" to hunt them with. I'd go with the "heavier cast" bullets over stout charges of H110 - especially if the 160gr cast bullets were SWCs.
I myself have a lot of cast 170gr "Keith" 357 SWCs on hand, and I'm more experienced with 2400 (I have a lot of that too) than I am with H110. So I'd load up some cast, 170gr "Keith" SWCs over stout charges of 2400 if I was going wild hog hunting.

 

[AJC1]

The heavy cast would be my choice for hog with the power pistol or unique. Never used h110 with cast and I dont know if your gas checked or not...the xtp would be fine for sd but I load the 140 xtp.

 

[bersaguy]

Thank you for the replies, looks like the consensus is leaning toward the 160 grainers. These are round nose flat point Lee 358-158rf cast from mostly wheel weights and then powder coated. I think the 15g of h110 sounds like a good place to start and I'll try some out with Unique in the 7g neighborhood
I'll take those 125 XTPs and load them up as 38+p for general SD rounds

 

[WrongHanded]

Thank you for the replies, looks like the consensus is leaning toward the 160 grainers. These are round nose flat point Lee 358-158rf cast from mostly wheel weights and then powder coated. I think the 15g of h110 sounds like a good place to start and I'll try some out with Unique in the 7g neighborhood
I'll take those 125 XTPs and load them up as 38+p for general SD rounds

Not having loaded and 125gr on .357 Mag, or using H110 at all, my actual experience is limited. But I would be inclined towards the 160gr cast with H110, and the 125gr XTP also with H110 and as fast as you can get them. Why? Go check out lucky gunner labs and look at what the Hornady 125gr XTP does in .38 and .357 loads and you'll see why it needs speed.

 

[tightgroup tiger]

Thank you for the replies, looks like the consensus is leaning toward the 160 grainers. These are round nose flat point Lee 358-158rf cast from mostly wheel weights and then powder coated. I think the 15g of h110 sounds like a good place to start and I'll try some out with Unique in the 7g neighborhood
I'll take those 125 XTPs and load them up as 38+p for general SD rounds

Did you water drop the 158gr bullets you casted. You will need to if you are going to load them over H110. 12 Brinell, which is what WW lead is usually at when air dropped, isn't hard enough to keep the bullet from stripping in the riflings with heavier loads of slow pistol powder. You will get really bad leading in your barrel.
I drop my wheel weight lead in ice water and let them set for a few weeks and they harden up nicely. So hard I can't mark them with anything but a piece of harder metal.
Just a thought.
These are what I would use on hogs. Too hard for SD uses though.

 

[Obturation]

I'd go with the heaviest you've got with h110, no problem for the ruger. I've burned my fair share of h110/w296 , my findings are directly in line with common wisdom - don't download below minimum , use a mag primer, expect full velocity and make sure the bullet size and alloy are appropriate , crimp well. It'll be the best combo for full power.

 

[bersaguy]

Did you water drop the 158gr bullets you casted. You will need to if you are going to load them over H110. .

These were air cooled, and then powder coated. And now they've been aging for the better part of a year. They're softer than "hard cast" but the powder coat should keep the leading at bay. I've pushed the same alloy and powder coat in 9mm to about 1100fps with no signs of leading

 

[buck460XVR]

What I'd like to have at the end is a round that would be effective for self defense, and/or effective for use on wild hogs.
Question being, is the 125 XTP the obvious choice here, or would I be better served with the heavier cast.

The 125 XTP would be the obvious choice for SD, but what makes it good for SD from a .357, makes for a poor hog hunting bullet. Out of the options you've given, the 160 gr cast is the obvious bullet for hunting hogs, but again, what would make it best for hogs, makes it less then preferable for SD. Kinda why they make so many different bullets.

 

[bersaguy]

The 125 XTP would be the obvious choice for SD, but what makes it good for SD from a .357, makes for a poor hog hunting bullet. Out of the options you've given, the 160 gr cast is the obvious bullet for hunting hogs, but again, what would make it best for hogs, makes it less then preferable for SD. Kinda why they make so many different bullets.

I see your point. Though I suppose where I would use these wouldn't necessarily be for hog hunting per se, but to have with me while in the woods which are known to contain hogs and fairly large critters. (Don't worry, I'm not going down the bear load route, there are black bear, but everyone knows you can't stop a bear with anything less than a 50BMG.... or a 25auto with the right shot placement...depending on who you ask) But it sounds like the heavier load is the way to go. I'll be interested to see what these bullets do at 357 mag velocity. May have to make up a Paul Harrell type meat target

 

[AJC1]

I see your point. Though I suppose where I would use these wouldn't necessarily be for hog hunting per se, but to have with me while in the woods which are known to contain hogs and fairly large critters. (Don't worry, I'm not going down the bear load route, there are black bear, but everyone knows you can't stop a bear with anything less than a 50BMG.... or a 25auto with the right shot placement...depending on who you ask) But it sounds like the heavier load is the way to go. I'll be interested to see what these bullets do at 357 mag velocity. May have to make up a Paul Harrell type meat target

The penetration vs overpenitration deal is not a consern in hunting and a pass through may even be desired. In sd that could get ugly. You have 2 great choices to address your 2 needs. I would even load the xtps in magnum to get full expansion if cases are not an issue.

 

[Bfh_auto]

I see your point. Though I suppose where I would use these wouldn't necessarily be for hog hunting per se, but to have with me while in the woods which are known to contain hogs and fairly large critters. (Don't worry, I'm not going down the bear load route, there are black bear, but everyone knows you can't stop a bear with anything less than a 50BMG.... or a 25auto with the right shot placement...depending on who you ask) But it sounds like the heavier load is the way to go. I'll be interested to see what these bullets do at 357 mag velocity. May have to make up a Paul Harrell type meat target

A 180 gr flat nose from a carbine didn't exit on this guy.
It entered the head and stopped before the diaphragm.
There is a big difference between hog hunting and maybe shooting a hog.
If it's more of an SD scenario. The 125 would be ok. Not preferred. But ok.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

Ok, I have a nice soft plinking load worked up in 38spl. Now I'd like to work up some for 357 to fire though a 4" Ruger Security Six. Given the primer situation, I don't really want to do all the iterations that I would typically do for a load work up, so I'm hoping to stand on the shoulders of giants and get a jump on the load development.

What I have to work with:
125g Hornaday XTP
130g Cast powder coated (BHN 16)
160g Cast powder coated (BHN 16)
Unique
Bullseye
Power Pistol
H110
CFE-P

What I'd like to have at the end is a round that would be effective for self defense, and/or effective for use on wild hogs. I'm not terribly interested in light loads for paper targets, and these wouldn't be the primary load used in this revolver. Question being, is the 125 XTP the obvious choice here, or would I be better served with the heavier cast. My instinct would tell me to go with about 19g of h110 under the 125 XTP, just curious about your experiences. Also, I only have 1lb of h110 and some 30 carbine that needs to be loaded.

I second the 15gr of 110 w/ the 160gr hard cast. My second choice would be 7.5gr of Unique w/ the160gr. Those are both tested loads. Is your bullet the Lee #358311 LRN?

 

[P Flados]

Your cast bullets sound good. I have loaded a lot of powder coated cast and do not use gas checks. This includes full power 357 Magnum and 357 Maximum with zero leading. Any problem with leading would likely be either a fit problem or a throat problem.

As a reference for your proposed load, Hodgdons has a start load for H110 of 15 grs and a max of 16.7 gr under a Hornady 158 XTP with a 1.580 OAL.

When substituting bullets, seating depth and the resultant percent fill really matter. However, it can be hard to figure out the seating depth or percent fill on the reference load. I have found my Quickload software to be very handy for this info. When the Hodgdon load is plugged into Quickload, it shows a 0.374" seating depth and fill as 94.8% for the start load and 104.8% (slightly compressed) for the max load. Note that their max load for the Nozler 180 is even a little bit more compressed.

I am not sure how deep your bullet will be seated, but if I were looking for a good full power load at just less than max and did not want to do a lot of load development, I would be tempted to load a couple at ~95% fill and then try 100% fill. Chances are the 100% fill will work about as good as you are going to get with the H110.

 

[Bfh_auto]

Your cast bullets sound good. I have loaded a lot of powder coated cast and do not use gas checks. This includes full power 357 Magnum and 357 Maximum with zero leading. Any problem with leading would likely be either a fit problem or a throat problem.

As a reference for your proposed load, Hodgdons has a start load for H110 of 15 grs and a max of 16.7 gr under a Hornady 158 XTP with a 1.580 OAL.

When substituting bullets, seating depth and the resultant percent fill really matter. However, it can be hard to figure out the seating depth or percent fill on the reference load. I have found my Quickload software to be very handy for this info. When the Hodgdon load is plugged into Quickload, it shows a 0.374" seating depth and fill as 94.8% for the start load and 104.8% (slightly compressed) for the max load. Note that their max load for the Nozler 180 is even a little bit more compressed.

I am not sure how deep your bullet will be seated, but if I were looking for a good full power load at just less than max and did not want to do a lot of load development, I would be tempted to load a couple at ~95% fill and then try 100% fill. Chances are the 100% fill will work about as good as you are going to get with the H110.

I run 15 grains under a 180 WFN. I'd say 15 is a good starting point for him. I settled at 16.5 for a 160 swc gas checked.
Use this at your own risk. Since I don't have pressure equipment to test my loads.

 

[Hooda Thunkit]

Did you water drop the 158gr bullets you casted. You will need to if you are going to load them over H110. 12 Brinell, which is what WW lead is usually at when air dropped, isn't hard enough to keep the bullet from stripping in the riflings with heavier loads of slow pistol powder. You will get really bad leading in your barrel.

I respectfully disagree.

I am useing a 50/50 mix of wheel weights and range lead. Around 10 hardness, and air-cooled.

I am running these at 1250+ fps from a 6.5" Ruger Blackhawk, with H110. I use a soft TAC lube.

No leading.

So - air-cooled, slow pistol powder, no leading, no stripping of the rifling.

The lesson here is that each firearm is different. If the projectiles fit the bore and the chamber neck, there will be a very good chance of success.
Harder lead, with harder lube, makes success more difficult.

 

[bersaguy]

Is your bullet the Lee #358311 LRN?

I'm using the Lee 358-158rf, similar to the Lyman #358311, but with a flat point

Lee 358-158rf


Lyman #358311

 

[Hooda Thunkit]

I'm using the Lee 358-158rf, similar to the Lyman #358311, but with a flat point

Lee 358-158rf
View attachment 981195

Lyman #358311
View attachment 981196

That Lee is a very popular bullet. Shouldn't be any problem finding folks with experience using it.

 

[2ndtimer]

I like Power Pistol in the .357 Magnum, with heavy hard cast bullets. I load 7.9 gr behind a 170 gr Keith style SWC for around 1200 FPS out of a 6” GP-100. Sure, I can gain 150 to 200 FPS going to W296/H110, but at DOUBLE the amount of powder per load. And with powder hard to find these days, it is prudent to use a more efficient powder.