357 magnum loads using non magnum primers

[typhoon4x4]

hi everyone just signed up but have used the sight for reference a ton of times before. here is my basic question . im reloading 357 mag and im gonna be using one of any number of powders i have. i have read and i am gonna use mag primers with my 296 powder an h110. i also have power pistol and some h4227 and bullseye powder. would any of these be ok to use with standard primers??? or do i have a trip to the store in my immediate future lol.thanks in advance.

 

[U.S.SFC_RET]

From what I understand a good powder without magnum primers is Alliant 2400. I wouldn't know if standard primers would work with the powders you have.

 

[JohnhenrySTL]

Bullseye does not require magnum primers, the h110 and 296 do. I have not used power pistol. Welcome to the forum.

 

[ColtPythonElite]

Power Pistol does not need a magnum primer.

 

[Jack B.]

Are you going to be shooting in cold weather?

 

[peterk1234]

I load 357 magnum with BE-86 and small pistol primers.

 

[edwardware]

I use H110 in .357, and neither my crony or my groups can distinguish between CCI 500 non-magnum SPP, and CCI 550 primers.

I speculate that H4227 may benefit from the magnum primer; it always seems to leave an incredible volume of unburnt powder behind, even in max/high pressure loads.

 

[Glockula]

The gunpowder used will determine what primer to use. Not the cartridge name. Most pistol powders do not need a magnum powder to light them. H110/W296 do need a magnum primer.

 

[buck460XVR]

IMR4227 does not need magnum primers to ignite. It does tho, like a full case(at or near compressed loads) and a firm crimp for complete burn. As others have said, while H110/W296 require mag primers in small cases like .357, most other powders do not. They may or may not tho, increase accuracy and velocity with other powders.

 

[typhoon4x4]

Thanks for the replays so far as far as cold weather it depends I may or may not be in cold weather . I live in ny so there is a good chance I may .

 

[hoodfu]

The use of magnum primers in h110 is not because it's required, but that you should. H110 has issues where if some of it doesn't ignite, it'll lead to a cascade of lots of it not igniting which can cause a squib. In a revolver that can be catastrophic. The recipes say to use magnum primers as a bit of a safety net so there's less of a chance of improper ignition. Concerning Power Pistol, you don't need magnum primers because it'll ignite even in 38 special loads, all the way down to pressures like 12k psi etc which is typical for those loads. You don't need the high 20's and 30's psi like you do with H110. One of my favorite high flash but relatively low recoil 357 magnum loads right now is a 110gr Hornady XTP over 10 grains of Power Pistol with a federal small pistol primer. For 125gr Zero brand JHP, I'm using 9 grains of PP.

 

[Buck13]

Of those powders, I would choose Power Pistol as the "safest" choice. Bullseye in .357 makes me nervous since the small charge in that long, skinny case would be easy to double-charge without being completely obvious. The results of that would almost certainly be catastrophic. If you visually inspect every charge carefully, no doubt you'd see it, but Bullseye would be the easiest to overlook. By my calculations, a double charge of PP would not overflow the case, but it would be so full I don't think you could seat the bullet (using 158 gr. JHP data).

4227 would also be safe since it doesn't seem to have a rep for squibs, even if downloaded (within published data). It's also impossible to put in a dangerously large charge and still seat a bullet (for a magnum revolver...maybe you could damage a .38 Special with a full case of 4227). 4227 would be the least efficient (in term of velocity you get per grain of powder) and would probably be a poor choice for light bullets. I've never seen it recommended for bullets that are not at least mid-weight for the caliber. I've only used it with magnum primers, so don't know if it would be inconsistent with standards. I'd only choose it today if you are hoarding the Power Pistol to use in some other caliber, or you don't want to see the bright white flash of PP (or H110/296). You'll see almost no flash from 4227, in my experience.

edit: Oops, I see Hodgdon does have data for all bullet weights in .357 Mag with H4227. I guess I just payed it no mind before. Maybe I'll try some 125s with it in my lever gun some day, if I get bored with all other possible combinations.

 

[Sunray]

Magnum primers have nothing whatever to do with the cartridge name. They're about the powder used and nothing else.
"...Hodgdon does have data..." You'll also note that for who knows why, Hodgdon used magnum primers with some powders in magnum named cartridges but not with non-magnum named cartridges.
"...a rep for squibs..." Squibs have nothing to do with the powder. Squibs are operator failure. Loader didn't check to be sure there was powder or enough powder. So is double-charging.
A full case of IMR or H 4227 will blow your firearm into next year. Max loads of H4227 run 10.0 grains. Case capacity of water is 23.4.

 

[ATLDave]

Your load data sources should specify whether a magnum primer is required. In most reloading manual, if magnum primers are not explicitly called for, then non-magnum primers are the appropriate primers and the basis of the data.

 

[vaalpens]

I have used the following powders in 357mag with small primers without any issues: Power Pistol, BE-86, CFE Pistol, Longshot and Unique. Since I live in Phoenix, I probably should add that most of these were shot in, not cold weather.

 

[MEHavey]

Go get some Vihtavouri N-110.
You can load it up to 95% of H110, or down to half that.
... and standard primers are fine.

Very versatile powder
(don't tell anybody)

 

[Buck13]

A full case of IMR or H 4227 will blow your firearm into next year. Max loads of H4227 run 10.0 grains.

With what, a 230 grain bullet? Hodgdon data for 158 grain XTP in .357 Magnum is 16.0 grains. I've used 4227 only rarely in .357, so my memory is unclear, but I thought that was somewhat compressed.

 

[Reloadron]

hi everyone just signed up but have used the sight for reference a ton of times before. here is my basic question . im reloading 357 mag and im gonna be using one of any number of powders i have. i have read and i am gonna use mag primers with my 296 powder an h110. i also have power pistol and some h4227 and bullseye powder. would any of these be ok to use with standard primers??? or do i have a trip to the store in my immediate future lol.thanks in advance.

One line of thought here is that ball or spherical powders, ball powder being a trade name coined by Olin and spherical by Hodgdon, should use a magnum primer for good uniform ignition. The old Speer #12 reloading manual gets into this in their .357 Magnum reloading data. Powders like 296, 2400, 231, HS6, HS7, and H110 they call for a CCI 550 or simply put a Magnum type primer. Other powders like Unique, Bullseye, Blue Dot and VV N110 or N350 a standard CCI500. Then as mentioned for those loading for cold climate use like using a magnum primer for all .357 Magnum loads. Newer load manuals like the Hornady 9th edition simply call out a WSPM (Winchester Small Pistol Magnum) primer across the board for all loads. The general consensus of start your loads low and work up pretty much applies regardless of the primer choice. The worst case scenario is using a standard primer with a ball or spherical powder may result in poor or uneven ignition of the powder.

Ron

 

[santacruzdave]

Alliant site calls for CCI 500 primers for 2400.

http://www.alliantpowder.com/reload...owderlist.aspx&type=1&powderid=9&cartridge=28

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Bullseye and Power Pistol do not require magnum primers. 4227 does not require magnum primers but won't be hurt if you use them.

Now for W296/H110 (same powder). That powder is a hard to ignite ball powder and benefit greatly from the use of magnum primers. You get better and more complete ignition and lower ES numbers. It's is even more important in colder weather.

Note: Bullseye is a very fast powder and not normally used in magnum application other than target loads.

Welcome to the forum.

 

[someguy2800]

I've tested magnum vs non magnum primers with H110/296 in 357 magnum, 357 maximum, and 357 Herrett. It's crazy how much of a difference it makes.

 

[buck460XVR]

The use of magnum primers in h110 is not because it's required, but that you should. H110 has issues where if some of it doesn't ignite, it'll lead to a cascade of lots of it not igniting which can cause a squib. In a revolver that can be catastrophic.

To me, that tells me they are required. Years ago, when the internet first came about, I quickly learned that asking the powder companies online generally gave me better answers than random internet posters on gun forums when it came to what is and what is not safe in reloading. Back then, I was told by techs at Hodgdon that magnum primers were required when using H110/W295 in staright-walled handgun cartridges. Making safe and reliable ammo is why we reload and to do so, sometimes requires us to do certain things. YEMV.

"...a rep for squibs..." Squibs have nothing to do with the powder. Squibs are operator failure. Loader didn't check to be sure there was powder or enough powder. So is double-charging.
A full case of IMR or H 4227 will blow your firearm into next year. Max loads of H4227 run 10.0 grains. Case capacity of water is 23.4.

In the case of H110/W296 squibs can be and are a result of using the wrong primer, even when one is using published load recipes. Those published load recipes(at least in .357) using H110/W296 are using magnum primers. So while the squib is not a direct result of the powder itself, the use of the wrong primer is. In small cases, like .357, at less than max charge, not using a mag primer is asking for trouble. In my guns, I don't want trouble, so I reload accordingly.

As for IMR4227 and .357 mag(which is what the thread is about) you cannot get enough powder in a case, seat a 158 gr bullet correctly and blow up any modern firearm. It is impossible. Same is true with any other straightwalled magnum handgun cartridge. The issue with IMR4227 and .357 is case capacity. You just cannot get enough powder in the case to give the velocities that many folks want from .357. Speer lists 17 gr as a max load with a 158 pill and I can tell you from experience, that is at or near compressed,a far cry from 10 gr and still, a very safe and accurate loading.