357 Magnum vs 45 ACP
- Thread starter rugerman07
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Sulaco
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- Mar 21, 2003
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I love dragging up old threads and making others crazy!!
My personal choice goes to .45ACP. I do like the versatility of .357 Magnums, but I do not enjoy shooting them. The same goes for .40SS&W and 10mm.
Give me a hi-capacity 9mm and a full-size .45ACP and I am a happy man!
My personal choice goes to .45ACP. I do like the versatility of .357 Magnums, but I do not enjoy shooting them. The same goes for .40SS&W and 10mm.
Give me a hi-capacity 9mm and a full-size .45ACP and I am a happy man!
NMGonzo
Member
Embrass the madness!Not only is it an excellent cartridge, but you get a flash bang grenade for free.
I have your tactical flashlight right here.
RevDerb
Member
I just realized that I read the first 40 posts in a 3+ year old thread. Aaaaaarrgh!! (did I spell that correctly?) Why do you people do this to me? Ecclesiastes 1:9
ColeK
Member
I have pistols chambered for both and like both cartridges.
I have a S&W Model 19 and S&W Model 60 w/ 3” barrel chambered in the .357 Mag.
I also have a Model S&W 625, an early Colt 1911-A1, and a Springfield Mil-spec .45 APC.
I do not like any pistol that uses a double stacked mag. They do not feel right in my hand.
I have a S&W Model 19 and S&W Model 60 w/ 3” barrel chambered in the .357 Mag.
I also have a Model S&W 625, an early Colt 1911-A1, and a Springfield Mil-spec .45 APC.
I do not like any pistol that uses a double stacked mag. They do not feel right in my hand.
MCgunner
Member
Who dug this moronic thread up?
Oh well, since it's alive again...
If you call a magazine a "clip", you don't have enough experience to have a coherent opinion concerning handguns.
I hunt hogs and deer with a .357, .45 ain't got enough pop in ACP form. Load up a hot COLT and, well, let's talk... But, hell, I carry .38s and 9x19s and 9x18s and feel well armed. The platform allows for concealment in 100 degree 70 percent humidity south Texas. I don't carry belt guns very often for self defense.
Oh well, since it's alive again...
If you call a magazine a "clip", you don't have enough experience to have a coherent opinion concerning handguns.
I hunt hogs and deer with a .357, .45 ain't got enough pop in ACP form. Load up a hot COLT and, well, let's talk...
But, hell, I carry .38s and 9x19s and 9x18s and feel well armed. The platform allows for concealment in 100 degree 70 percent humidity south Texas. I don't carry belt guns very often for self defense.
mokin
Member
I like 'em both but am more likely to go with the .45.
Which one do you suppose would stop this thread?
Which one do you suppose would stop this thread?
Taurus_9mm
Member
Old threads are sometimes better the second time around.
I like both but if I had to choose just one for self-defense it would likely be a .357 Magnum Ruger GP100.
I like both but if I had to choose just one for self-defense it would likely be a .357 Magnum Ruger GP100.
Smokey in PHX
Member
I'd take the 45 for home defense. Faster reload, holds more shells, has more concentrated control indoors( high noise factor), and usually knocks people off their feet with torso hits.
MCgunner
Member
What movie was that in?Probably not the guy that said " I'snt a 9mm more powerful than both?" I guess he doesnt know about the trooper that shot a perp in the gut, but the perp was still able to grab Carbine and shoot the officer in the eye killing him, and all the speculation that if he probably even had a 40 that would not have happened. I still dont understand why the cop didnt continue to shoot until the threat was gone.
C-grunt
Member
WOW! Lots of misinformation and urban legends being thrown around in this thread.
A... 45 ACP will not in any way shape or form knock a man off his feet
B... Handgun lethality has WAY WAY WAYWAY more to do with shot placement and penetration than caliber. A .357 through the heart will kill you just as fast as a .45 through the heart. Either through the shoulder is a very survivable wound.
C... Actual experts and people that study wounding mechanisms agree that all of the service calibers (9mm, .40, .38 Spec, .357, 10mm, .45ACP, .44 Spec) behave very similar in actual shootings when loaded with modern defensive ammunition.
D... Its the Indian not the Arrow that wins the fight.
A... 45 ACP will not in any way shape or form knock a man off his feet
B... Handgun lethality has WAY WAY WAYWAY more to do with shot placement and penetration than caliber. A .357 through the heart will kill you just as fast as a .45 through the heart. Either through the shoulder is a very survivable wound.
C... Actual experts and people that study wounding mechanisms agree that all of the service calibers (9mm, .40, .38 Spec, .357, 10mm, .45ACP, .44 Spec) behave very similar in actual shootings when loaded with modern defensive ammunition.
D... Its the Indian not the Arrow that wins the fight.
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texagun
Member
If you mean by "...behave very similar in actual shootings..." that they all go bang and make a hole, I would agree with you. If you mean the effectiveness of the 9mm and the.38 Special are as equally effective as the other calibers you mention, I would take exception with your statement. Every major study I have ever read would take exception with that statement.
jad0110
Member
This is more of a failure to place a shot in an effective spot. There have been cases of determined aggressors taking a full load of 00 buckshot to the gut and continuing to function, for at least the short term. So in this case, the difference between a 9mm, .40, .45, .357, 10mm, etc to the abdomen is likely pretty irrelevant.
C-grunt
Member
I cant think of a single shooting where a bigger caliber handgun between the ones listed would have resulted in a different outcome.
Handgunjs wound by pure crushing mechanisms. A slightly larger caliber isnt going to make a significant difference to make up for poor shot placement.
texagun
Member
So velocity or bullet diameter has no significant effect in handgun ammunition?
OK.......whatever you say. So I guess a BB will be just as effective as a .45 Colt.
I won't argue the point any further.
C-grunt
Member
Thats why I stated using service calibers. Also velocities in the 850-1400 FPS range dont really do the damage as the ones in the 2500-3000 FPS range.So velocity or bullet diameter has no significant effect in handgun ammunition?
OK.......whatever you say. So I guess a BB will be just as effective as a .45 Colt.
Can we see your research that supports this claim.
C-grunt
Member
http://www.firearmstactical.com/hwfe.htm
http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19887
Along with these, I rely on my experience. I have spent two tours in Iraq as an US Army infantryman (invasion of 2003 and 2005). Since leaving the Army I have worked as a patrol officer in one of the largest cities in the US.
In my experience all of the service calibers work if you strike a vital organ(s) and dont work if you dont.
My friend has been in 2 shooting on duty. Both times he shot the bad guy at close range multiple times with 230 grn Federal HSTs. Both shooting had several torso hits as well as head shots. Both suspects survived.
Was at a police involved shooting a while back where a guy pulled a gun on an officer. The officer was on the ground and the suspect was on the second floor walkway of an apartment complex. Officers round (230grn HST) hits the suspect in the lower chest/upper stomach area under his arm. Bullet completely passes through his torso and exits near his other shoulder. The suspect ran through the complex and took 3 officers to physically fight him to get him into custody. They then walked him to the ambulance (They will RARELY come directly to an active scene) where he was rushed to the ER. He barely lived.
My training officer shot a guy who was robbing people inside a shopping mall with a Mac 11. Round (again a 230grn HST) entered the side of the chest and through the heart. Bad guy was DRT.
Had a drug dealer shoot another drug dealer. Rounds were Remington Golden Saber .45 (unknown weight). One shot destroys his elbow. Second shot hits him in the temple from a front facing shot. Bullet deflects down and out the cheek. Enters the chest near the collar bone. deflects off a rib and ends up on the other side of his torso near hi pelvic bone. He was still conscious enough to tell us who shot him.
In Iraq in 2005 I witnessed an Iraqi police officer shoot a man laying an IED with a Glock 19 using Nato ball ammo. Round enters the SOB in the side of his chest and the guy, who was running in a full sprint, faceplanted and never even twitched.
Had a homicide a while back where a guy shot his roomate two or three times in the chest with a 9mm and he was DRT.
Like I said earlier, handguns wound by destroying tissue that the bullet passes through. They do not have enough velocity to do significant damage outside of the wound track. 2/10s of an inch is not a significant size difference. Modern defensive ammunition all expand well and penetrate well. Look at the gel shots from the post above. None are significantly "better" than the others.
Our training personel have shown us that departments that issue 9mm exclusively have no complaints when using modern ammunition. NYPD has been using the 124 grn +P Golddot for several years now and I have heard no complaints.
BTW I carry a .40 S&W and am soon switching to a .45 because I dont care for the recoil characteristics of the .40. If I could carry a 9mm I would have no problems with it.
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