357 rifle load for pigs?

[brewer12345]

So I have been hog hunting exactly once (they are populous a state south of me but have thankfully thus far only invaded a small corner of my state) and I found that dad's Marlin in .35 Rem was like the hammer of Thor for smallish pigs. One was DRT and the other made it maybe 25 feet. When in doubt, the .35 Rem lever would be the choice. That said, I am having fun fooling around with loading for my .357 Rossi and while this is mostly used for punching paper and bagging bunnies, it occurred to me that pigs inside 100 yards are probably well within the capabilities of .357 out of a 24 inch barrel (at least if we are not talking about Hogzilla).

I can read reloading manuals as well as anyone and will do so, but what is a good bullet choice for pigs? My inclination is a harder (BHN 18 or so) cast bullet to ensure good penetration. Is a 158 grain semi-wadcutter or RNFP enough bullet? I see cast in 170 and 180 grain flavors, are they a better choice? Is a gas check a necessity for a cast bullet with the sorts of loads I would be flinging at pigs? Is JSP of some sort a better choice?

I'd be very interested in a deer load as well, but 44 mag out of a rifle is barely legal for deer in my state and mulies can be pretty chunky and far away in the foothills, so I will continue chasing them with the 35 Rem or a 30-06.

 

[Captcurt]

Put a stout load of H110, 2400 or Reloader #9 under a 180gr Hornady XTP and see what happens. I used them out of my GP100 and they do a number. They would have to work even better out of a rifle..

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I have gotten great results in my Marlin .357 Magnum levergun with a 180gr Cast Performance WFNGC bullet. I have not use it on pigs though so I'm not sure the velocities will be high enough to penetrate deeply. I can tell you they are devastating on groundhogs for sure.
http://www.grizzlycartridge.com/index.php?app=ecom&ns=prodshow&ref=CP38180

Using that Cast Performance 180gr Cast Bullet with a gas check in the Marlin:
With W296/H110 the AV is 1547 fps
With Lil'Gun the AV is 1657 fps

Cast Performance also has a 160gr Cast Bullet with the same extremely wide meplat but without a gas check. Cast Performance bullets are very hard so you might be able to load them to rifle velocities without leading but I haven't tried yet. You will probably exceed 1800 fps so your getting close to the limits of Cast bullets. They report a BHN of 18-21 and I can attest to them usually being on the high side of the range. They are very hard and well formed bullets.

http://www.grizzlycartridge.com/index.php?app=ecom&ns=prodshow&ref=CP38160PB

These are the same bullets loaded in the ammo of The Grizzly Cartridge Company, their sister company.

 

[horsey300]

Put a stout load of H110, 2400 or Reloader #9 under a 180gr Hornady XTP and see what happens. I used them out of my GP100 and they do a number. They would have to work even better out of a rifle..

Curiosity makes me ask, as I run the factory hornady .38+p wouldn't the accelerated speed potentially reduce penetration due to the increased speed of expansion?

 

[someguy2800]

I have a 357 herrett in a 14" contender which is kind of a super duper 357 magnum. I have been testing bullets on water jugs and poplar logs this spring. The best results I have found are with Sierra 158 JSP. They expand beautifully and they I can tell you this is one very tough bullet. Actually it's the toughest jacketed bullet I have tested. At 357 rifle velocity they should expand to about .45" and they will penetrate straight. I wouldn't use anything bigger than 158 as it takes up to much room in the case.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Curiosity makes me ask, as I run the factory hornady .38+p wouldn't the accelerated speed potentially reduce penetration due to the increased speed of expansion?

Yes and No... While that is generally true it depends upon the bullet itself. Some bullets are built to expand slowly for deep penetration although that is more true with rifle bullets than handgun bullets. This us why I recommend a,hard cast bullet and not a HP bullet. However, the XTP bullet is designed to penetrate deeply and expand. If you are looking for a jacketed HP bullet it us a good choice for hunting are the Nosler Sporting Handgun bullets.

If you want a jacketed HP bullet I would look to the Nosler bullet. I still prefer a Hard Cast Bullet for this,application followed by a jacketed soft point bullet.

 

[horsey300]

Yes and No... While that is generally true it depends upon the bullet itself. Some bullets are built to expand slowly for deep penetration although that is more true with rifle bullets than handgun bullets. This us why I recommend a,hard cast bullet and not a HP bullet. However, the XTP bullet is designed to penetrate deeply and expand. If you are looking for a jacketed HP bullet it us a good choice for hunting are the Nosler Sporting Handgun bullets.

If you want a jacketed HP bullet I would look to the Nosler bullet. I still prefer a Hard Cast Bullet for this,application followed by a jacketed soft point bullet.

A-ha! Thank you!

 

[Newtosavage]

Pigs inside 100 yards are definitely within the capabilities of a .357 rifle. I killed quite a few with a S&W revolver in .357 - several of which I only used the .38+P ammo. That was a 6" barrel. So out of a 20" rifle barrel, your range will easily be 70-100 yards.

Most pigs are not that hard to kill. It's only the really large boars that have developed a thick shield and/or have caked on mud that present a problem - in which case you just shoot them in the head and be done with it.

 

[BigBore44]

I have a 357 herrett in a 14" contender which is kind of a super duper 357 magnum. I have been testing bullets on water jugs and poplar logs this spring. The best results I have found are with Sierra 158 JSP. They expand beautifully and they I can tell you this is one very tough bullet. Actually it's the toughest jacketed bullet I have tested. At 357 rifle velocity they should expand to about .45" and they will penetrate straight. I wouldn't use anything bigger than 158 as it takes up to much room in the case.

This.... Sierra makes a VERY tough bullet. I use them almost exclusively in my 44 mag and 100% exclusively in my 444. Penetration is superb. Expansion is profound. Devastation is expected. And they hold together very well. The downside of them is they don't "look" tough. So many people overlook them.

 

[someguy2800]

Yeah I shot some 300 grain JSP out of my 444. Expansion and toughness was just amazing but I could not make them group. I still have 200 of them left over with no use for them. The sierra JSP bullets are almost like a hard cast bullet with a jacket on them. The 158 jsp groups about 3" from my contender pistol. I am still getting used to shooting a scoped pistol.

 

[Varminterror]

I'll second, and slightly expand, the recommendation for a healthy dose of H110/W296 under a 158 or 180XTP. There are two 158's, one tougher than the other, so if you want a bit extra penetration, get the 158 XTP-FP instead of the standard 158 XTP. The 180XTP will open much like the standard 158, but will still penetrate a bit more for the weight. Any of the 3 will kill hogs quickly if placed well, even out of a handgun.

I run the 158XTP-FP and 180XTP out of a .357/44 revolver which meets or beats what velocity you will see for velocity out of your .357mag rifle, and have ran them for many years out of Marlin leverguns for hogs and deer, both bullets work very well. The standard 158XTP works fine, just expands a little more than I like for shorter range impacts at rifle or supermag velocity.

Curiosity makes me ask, as I run the factory hornady .38+p wouldn't the accelerated speed potentially reduce penetration due to the increased speed of expansion?

The construction of that 110 FTX bullet used in the Hornady factory .38sp+P load is irrelevant for the 158 & 180 XTP's. Very different expansion rates for these 4 bullets (two 158's). More speed does increase expansion, with the same bullet, but comparing the 110 FTX to the 158, 158FP, and 180 XTP's isn't appropriate.

 

[KansasSasquatch]

Barnes' 140gr XPB might be worth looking into.

 

[horsey300]

I'll second, and slightly expand, the recommendation for a healthy dose of H110/W296 under a 158 or 180XTP. There are two 158's, one tougher than the other, so if you want a bit extra penetration, get the 158 XTP-FP instead of the standard 158 XTP. The 180XTP will open much like the standard 158, but will still penetrate a bit more for the weight. Any of the 3 will kill hogs quickly if placed well, even out of a handgun.

I run the 158XTP-FP and 180XTP out of a .357/44 revolver which meets or beats what velocity you will see for velocity out of your .357mag rifle, and have ran them for many years out of Marlin leverguns for hogs and deer, both bullets work very well. The standard 158XTP works fine, just expands a little more than I like for shorter range impacts at rifle or supermag velocity.



The construction of that 110 FTX bullet used in the Hornady factory .38sp+P load is irrelevant for the 158 & 180 XTP's. Very different expansion rates for these 4 bullets (two 158's). More speed does increase expansion, with the same bullet, but comparing the 110 FTX to the 158, 158FP, and 180 XTP's isn't appropriate.

Thank you, I appreciate that!

 

[brewer12345]

Thanks. I have some 158 grain XTPs (HP) on hand and ordered some of the Sierra soft points in 158 grain flavor. I will experiment with both to see what I can do. I don't have any 110 on hand, but I do have a pound of Lil Gun so I will probably start messing with Lil Gun and go find some 110 if the Lil Gun does not cut it.

Silly question: Is it absolutely necessary to have a chronograph to work up loads like this? I kind of know that the published data for a healthy amount of Lil Gun or 110 out of a rifle (with a 24 inch barrel) will be screaming high. If I can get accuracy to suit me, does it matter what the actual speed of the load is?

 

[someguy2800]

Be sure to post up the results of you testing. I would be interested in seeing to for my own uses.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Thanks. I have some 158 grain XTPs (HP) on hand and ordered some of the Sierra soft points in 158 grain flavor. I will experiment with both to see what I can do. I don't have any 110 on hand, but I do have a pound of Lil Gun so I will probably start messing with Lil Gun and go find some 110 if the Lil Gun does not cut it.

Silly question: Is it absolutely necessary to have a chronograph to work up loads like this? I kind of know that the published data for a healthy amount of Lil Gun or 110 out of a rifle (with a 24 inch barrel) will be screaming high. If I can get accuracy to suit me, does it matter what the actual speed of the load is?

Lil'Gun generates a lot of heat and has been linked to damaged forcing cones in revolvers but since you are shooting this,ammo in a Carbine I would call it good. I still shoot Lil'Gun in my Marlin.

Using Lil'Gun will generally deliver 100 fps more than H110 when loading the same bullet without loss of accuracy in my tests. If it weren't for the excessive heat it would be my only powder for load top end . 357 Magnum ammo.

 

[brewer12345]

Be sure to post up the results of you testing. I would be interested in seeing to for my own uses.

Will do. I don't have a chronograph, so it will be accuracy only.

 

[LoonWulf]

nother vote for 180xtps and 110 (or similar). that's what I use in my .357 Rossi.

 

[LoonWulf]

Thanks. I have some 158 grain XTPs (HP) on hand and ordered some of the Sierra soft points in 158 grain flavor. I will experiment with both to see what I can do. I don't have any 110 on hand, but I do have a pound of Lil Gun so I will probably start messing with Lil Gun and go find some 110 if the Lil Gun does not cut it.

Silly question: Is it absolutely necessary to have a chronograph to work up loads like this? I kind of know that the published data for a healthy amount of Lil Gun or 110 out of a rifle (with a 24 inch barrel) will be screaming high. If I can get accuracy to suit me, does it matter what the actual speed of the load is?

Forgot to mention that ive also worked up loads for my .357 and 158 speer jhps, ended up at about 1650fps at book max with no signs of pressure, this is from a 16"m92. accuracy was in the 1" range @ 50yds, same for the 180s. Ive found older info suggesting more velocity is possible than im getting with either right now and when i have time, and a bit more experience reading pressure on strait walled cases ill probably see where my loads top out.
As long as you stick to book loads i dont think a chrono is necessary, especially on a relatively short range firearms for which its unlikely youll be setting up drop tables.
I use mine just to know what speed im actually getting. Where i find them most helpfull is when going beyond what the book says is max, knowing the velocity your getting is another way to monitor for excessive pressure.

 

[Captcurt]

Curiosity makes me ask, as I run the factory hornady .38+p wouldn't the accelerated speed potentially reduce penetration due to the increased speed of expansion?

I was pushing the 180gr around 1200FPS and had no problems. Pushed the 300gr XTP over 1500 out of a muzzleloader. Worked swell. It probably would cut down penetration cranking it up some but if you want penetration over expansion you should go to a hardcast lead. Personally, I will take the expansion.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I did send a bunch of bullets over the chrono shot from the Marlin Levergun. Like I said above, it seems Lil'Gun adds ~100 fps to each load.
Here are the numbers: (you will be surprised!)

Using a 180gr Hornady XTP bullet:
15.0gr Lil'Gun - CCI-550 primer - AV=1584 fps
13.6gr W296 - CCI-550 primer - AV=1495 fps

Using a Cast Performance 180gr WFNGC bullet: (Hard Cast)
14.8gr Lil'Gun - CCI-550 primer - AV=1657 fps
13.7gr H110 - CCI-550 primer - AV=1547 fps

I also tried a 170gr Sierra JHC bullet and liked the results.
17.0gr Lil'Gun - CCI-550 primer - AV=1793 fps (that's amazing velocity!)
15.5gr H110 - CCI-550 primer - AV=1699 fps

Just to add some info for a 125gr Hornady XTP/HP bullet even though I didn't use Lil'Gun, the velocities were scary!
17.7gr 2400 - Win WSP primer - AV=2055 fps
22.0gr H110 - CCI-550 primer - AV=2239 fps

Remember, these numbers were attained from a Marlin 1894C Levergun Carbine.

WARNING, be careful when using data you get from the Internet. Mistakes can and will happen when writing numbers. If you blow yourself up blame only you and no one else...

 

[Terry Vincent]

I shot several pigs in TX this winter, mostly with my Henry Big Boy using Sierra 180 gr FPJ over 15.9 gr of H 110 or 158 XTP's over 18 grs of Lil Gun, both loads using CCI 550 primers. The attached photo of this hog (222 lbs live weight) taken with the XTP load. He was shot at ten yards from a night stand and he ran fifty yards. Entrance hole was golf ball size at the rib cage. The bullet did not exit. Velocities were 1623 for the Sierra 180 FPJ and 1940 for the XTP.

 

[herkyguy]

Hornady FP-XTPs are nice bullets, but the 2015 reloading catalog recommended a max velocity around 1800 fps or so, if i recall correctly. For that reason, i only loaded them to about 1600 fps with W296 - I'm also shooting a Winchester 1873, so I didn't want to risk overpressure or damage to the gun. plenty accurate and I hope to shoot a NC whitetail with that combo in the future.

 

[someguy2800]

Those velocity recommendations are for how fast you can push the bullet and still have them hold together on game. No danger to the rifle. A lot of revolver bullets blow apart into pieces at those kinds of velocity.

 

[Terry Vincent]

I think the best load for 200+ lb hogs is a 170 grn gas check RNFP made by Rim Rock cast bullets. Out of my Henry this hard cast bullet averages 1920 fps using 17 gr. of Lil Gun and a Rem 7 1/2 small rifle primer. No leading and excellent 50 yard accuracy, one inch groups from a rest are the norm. I have never recovered a bullet, all pass throughs, and none of the boars have made it more than 100 yards. Shot this 242 pounder through the shoulders at forty yards. This load produces more than 1,000 ft lbs of energy at 75 yards. The heavy shoulder shield requires the bullet hold together. The XTP HP I used on the above hog really mushroomed on the shield and still made the golf ball size hole on his rib cage, but as I said it did not exit. I don't think I would use the XTP's again and will stick with the 170's and 180's.