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357 sig kabooom

Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by Haycreek, Nov 26, 2007.

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  1. Haycreek

    Haycreek Member

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    Well, I thought that it would never happen to me, but the second round of a new handload kaboomed my trusty Glock 31. I haven't had the opportunity to check everthing yet, but I will. I have reloaded over a dozen different calibers, for over forty years, I use a single stage RCBS setup. I have been using a balance bar type scale, but this was my first batch that was weighed on an new electronic Lyman scale. I didn't double check the weight against my old scale. The load was : New PMC brass, PMC 125 fmj bullet and 9 grains of AA 5 powder[ 9.2 grains is the max]. After loading the rounds, they were run through a Lee factory die and the die was set "light" according to the directions. I know the case sizes in the chamber and I was careful not to crimp. Because I use the old slow one stage press, I have time to visually check the powder level in each case before seating the bullet. When this round fired, the mag was blown partially out, the slide was partially open because the complete case head was separated from the case body, and I found the extractor six feet behind me on the range floor. The handgun is fairly new. I will completely strip the pistol later today when time permits. The PMC bullets and cases were recently purchased from Midway USA. This is the first mishap like this that has happened to me. Any comments or suggestions [other than sticking with my 1911's ]
     
  2. usp_fan

    usp_fan Member

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    kB!'d a G22. Failure was directly over the feedramp. Was shooting reloads at the time--the cause wasn't an overcharge. The gun did contain the failure fairly well. Glock offered to allow me to purchase a replacement at "cost"--at the time about @ $215. They were also nice enough to return my night sights.

    Sold the night sights to a friend with a glock. Sold the new pistol. Purchased a pistol with a fully supported chamber.
     
  3. JDGray

    JDGray Member

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    Sorry to here that.:eek:
    A few things, Was the new brass trimmed? and was the oal long? Sounds like it fired slightly out of battery. The .357 sig round has very little neck area to give good neck tension, and I would give each round the push test. Your scale may just be off, and loaded em to hot, .2 grains is awfull close to max, for a start load.
     
  4. Scorpiusdeus

    Scorpiusdeus member

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    The good news is Glock will blame you so it will still be your "trusty" Glock. ;)
     
  5. AndyC

    AndyC Member

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    My guess is bullet setback.
     
  6. browningguy

    browningguy Member

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    As well they should, I believe Glock, as do almost all other manufacturers, says the warranty is invalid if using reloads. I reload for rifles, but not for any pistols. So if one of the rifles blows up I know there is no warranty, 'cause it's probably my fault.
     
  7. wally

    wally Member

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    ????


    In light of the above, and the near max load done with an uncalibrated scale being used for the first time, I'd bet on it!

    --wally
     
  8. Haycreek

    Haycreek Member

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    My OAL was 1.135, which is the same OAL that the PMC factory loads are loaded. Firing out of battery is a possiblilty, I did the press test, the bullets would not slip even before the Lee FCD tightened them. Well, so far the 45 GAP and the 100 and the 9mm are not likely to kaboom. I have a fully supported match barrel for the 40 S&W. I"ll have to admit, some confidence has been lost !!!
     
  9. 10-Ring

    10-Ring Member

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    When I blew up my 21, I sent it back to Glock...they repaired it and the cost to me was for the new barrel, they pd shipping and I got a couple new mags to boot.
    Really, the only real reasons I hear of kb! is from reloads/ bad ammo, not the gun -- ask Glock! ;)
     
  10. wally

    wally Member

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    Firing out of battery is a gun problem. Good luck getting Glock to admit it!

    Dirt, crud, bad ammo, many things can prevent the gun from going into full lockup, its the designers job to insure the gun does not fire if such happens.

    --wally.
     
  11. Haycreek

    Haycreek Member

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    The pistol had just been cleaned. I fired one round, held the trigger back, and fired the second round of a controlled pair from trigger reset position. I have examined the case head/firing pin under magnification, and one end of the primer indent is somewhat different, possibly fired out of battery. I'm still looking.
     
  12. JDGray

    JDGray Member

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    This is always a good practice. If you can get your gun apart, drop a few of your reloads into the barrel, to see if any hang out. They should go in flush. I like taking a empy fired case, finger start a bullet, and push it into the chamber letting the rifling seat the bullet. Measure the mocked up cartridge and subtract .010, uses that as your max oal for that bullet type.
     
  13. jfh

    jfh Member

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    I had a Glock 20 blowup shortly after that model came out.

    Yes, it was a reload. Since it was a recipe and charge that I had built 1000s of times and shot in a SA Omega, I am reasonably convinced the problem was neither an overcharged case nor setback--that it was probably caused by the "lead" problem with (certain Manufacturer's) polygonal rifling--namely Glocks.

    In mine, the chamber and barrel split at the 4:00 position, and the venting twisted the slide off the frame and launched it over my left shoulder. All parts of the pistol were too damaged to repair.

    While I still have it, I lost my interest in shooting Glocks, and I sold the others I owned.

    Just to compare--I had a reloading "incident" this summer that ended up with me shooting a cylinderful of overcharged cases in my S&W 640 j-frame. As near as I can tell, there was 17 to 18 gr. of AA#7 under a 135-gr. bullet in a 38 Special case.

    I fired all five shots--and had to rap the cases out, etc., etc. I even shot another 75 rounds or so before my gunsmith could examine it. The cylinder was stretched--so I sent it in to S&W, explained what happened, and waited.

    They replaced the cylinder and barrel and shipped it back to me--no charge.

    Jim H.
     
  14. AK103K

    AK103K Member

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    I use 13 grains of AA #9 for my 357SIG reloads. It fills the case completely and is compressed. There is no chance of setback and I've never had a loose bullet. Its a pretty hot load and shoots just like the factory ammo I shoot.

    I've also used around 11 grains of AA #7, which also pretty much fills the case and gives about the same result.
     
  15. chilic82

    chilic82 Member

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    Hmmm...Maybe this is the reason Glocks states not to use reloads.
     
  16. JDGray

    JDGray Member

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    Reloads are just as safe as factory ammo, and no gun manufacturer is going to recommend them. Its to easy to make a mistake. I've run thousands of reloads through several Glocks, without a problem. Overlook one thing, one time, and you get what we have here.
     
  17. sniper350

    sniper350 Member

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    Chambers which are NOT fully supported as with a Glock ....just doesn't allow for any errors at all when it comes to re-loading.

    That's been the problem ...........why Glock has not made a design change to include fully supported chambers is beyond me. When the company was new , I could see the reluctance to re-tool and change your design. But they certainly can afford this "change" at this point in their History.

    When you reach chamber pressures approaching 27,000 psi ......the slightest problem with Brass or bullet set back or over powder .......... and bad things are going to happen with chambers that expose some of the cartridge's casing to the outside world.

    It's really not the pistol ........... but they [Glock ] do receive a lot of bad press when KB's occur. Basically it requires you to be perfect when loading ammo .............and there in lies the rub .........nobodys perfect !! :banghead:

    JF.
     
  18. 351 WINCHESTER

    351 WINCHESTER Member

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    + 1 on supported chambers
     
  19. FM12

    FM12 Member

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    Pull 5 to 10 of the remaining reloads and check the powder charge of each one and write it down. Check for variations, and consider pulling all if you need to.
     
  20. eldon519

    eldon519 Member

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    I think the 357 SIG Glocks do have fully supported chambers.

    Regardless, Glocks really do not handle over-pressure situations well. They don't seem to have nearly as much of a safety margin as most modern handguns out there.
     
  21. Eightball

    Eightball Member

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    That would be my guess as to the problem right there. Check against your old scale to make sure crap like this doesn't happen. One time, loading with a new powder of unkown density, I dropped it in the case, and just knew it didn't sit right, so I weighed the charge on a different scale, and discovered that the scale I was using was WAY off. Woulda been a kB of monumental proportions.
     
  22. Haycreek

    Haycreek Member

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    357 kabooom

    Just looking at the Glock 31 , it appears that no damage was done. The small trigger disconnect spring that sits on a plunger is lost. I found the extractor. I have ordered a new spring, and will detail strip the part today. I plan to pull some bullets and weigh the powder with my old scale. The primer hit is a little off center, but is a good imprint, it did not likely fire out of battery. No doubt that it was an overload. Other reloaded rounds fall right into the chamber completely. I bet that it would not have happened in a Gen 3 S&W or a Ruger.:)
     
  23. JDGray

    JDGray Member

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    I wouldn't lay my money on that bet:scrutiny:
     
  24. 1 old 0311

    1 old 0311 member

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    Isn't it funny how the 1911 has been around for 97 years, and the Hi Power has been around 72 years, BUT the only pistols you read about blowing up are the 20 year old Glocks? Wonder why?:what:
     
  25. mjrodney

    mjrodney Member

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    I would have to go with the bet.

    These forums are an equal opportunity medium, and one would think that we would see a balanced number of branded blow ups, but we don't.

    It just seems to me that the unsupported barrels and the polygonal rifling of certain brands takes center stage far more often than their more traditional brethern.

    I've seen photos of blown revolvers in the past few years, but not pistols with fully supported barrels and traditional rifling, at least not that I recall.
     
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