357Mag load advice needed

[P Flados]

For midrange, I would drop to a faster powder. Most of my mid range stuff is loaded with Clean Shot these days as I found it leaves less black soot residue than anything else and my cylinders gum up less frequently.

However, some folks like a magnum gun to shoot like a magnum and consider a 158 loaded to say 25,000 psi to 30,000 psi as enjoyable range ammo in 4" or longer revolvers.

I really do not see much point in loading nice JHPs as midrange. Commercial cast with powder coat makes more sense for mid range. For his JHPs, I think he will get happy at around 12 gr to 12.5 gr of AA 9.

 

[IWAC]

AA #9 is a slow pistol powder, and it's not going to shoot clean at 15K PSI.

Thanks for the reminder!

 

[Show Me]

I am going to second Poper on this subject. My advice is to buy the latest reloading manual by Lyman and then another from someone else to get more load data and stick with what you find in them. That is what I have done since the '60's and never had even a pierced primer. Leave the experimenting to professionals with the equipment to do it safely. I have accumulated a stack of mostly obselete loading manuals now but it's interesting to compare the old data with the new. Some powders remain the same while others change and powders are made today that weren't in years past so stay up to date.

The Lee manual has a lot of data but mine is old and was just what was found in other manuals with some popular powders left completely out. I considered it to be a so-so manual for that reason and the fact that it tried to fall apart.

Ya the lee manuals come unglued especially if you read it in the hot tub

 

[AJC1]

I really do not see much point in loading nice JHPs as midrange. Commercial cast with powder coat makes more sense for mid range. For his JHPs, I think he will get happy at around 12 gr to 12.5 gr of AA 9.

I did that when loading max in heavy pistol, and reduced in #9 to directly compare them. 12.6 of heavy pistol is good, but even with mag primers shot erratic sd with #9. Despite the claims heavy pistol is about an entire grain faster. If someone sends me a pressure trace 2 I'll do in depth data testing....

 

[P Flados]

I did that when loading max in heavy pistol, and reduced in #9 to directly compare them. 12.6 of heavy pistol is good, but even with mag primers shot erratic sd with #9. Despite the claims heavy pistol is about an entire grain faster. If someone sends me a pressure trace 2 I'll do in depth data testing....

Thanks for the feedback. My guess is that when they made the St. Marks version, they intentionally shifted it some. It may only be "half a tolerance band" or it could be more. It may be exactly the same at one pressure but slower at others. I just do not see how the Lawyer types could let them switch over without making it a little slower "just to be safe" with existing load data.

I am also curious as to when the powder switch was made and would love to confirm which version was used when the 357 load data was developed. For what it is worth, Quickload seems to model them as the same powder as far as charge vs. pressure & velocity but slightly different in terms of percent fill at a given charge. On the other had it actually gives different results for 296 & H110.

 

[243winxb]

The vintage of the powder matters. Different data. Almost like different powders?

Way? Different manufactures from different countries.

AA#9 powder

#9 in 357 < This turned out to be defective primers
Hodgdon data is for current St. Marks Powder. Fl. .

 

[buck460XVR]

So I am thinking that I would start out at the lower end. Start at 10 to 10.5 grn. Anyone see any error in what I am thinking? The ammo will be shot out of mostly 4" guns with one 6"er. Not looking for super heavy rounds just somthing I can shoot at the range and enjoy.

Thanks for your thoughts
WB

Your thinking makes sense and would be the direction I would go in, altho I would probably start at 10.5. My advice would be to not make a lot of rounds until you dial them in. Since that is considerably below the min start in the Speer manual, I would think, odds are you will have to move up a tad with powder charge to get accuracy and to avoid sooty cases. With the liower charges, I would want to stick to the mag primers for better ignition consistency, but otherwise I doubt if it will make a lot of difference.

 

[P Flados]

FYI, Feedback from the OP:

Montana Gold
Base Dia 0.3565
Length 0.6690
Length to top of crimp grove 0.4090
Length to the mid of the crimp grove 0.3680
Length to the bottom of the crimp grove 0.3600

I also had a XTP and measured it.
Base Dia 0.3560
Length 0.6690
Length to top of crimp grove 0.4175
Length to the mid of the crimp grove 0.3905
Length to the bottom of the crimp grove 0.3610

This looks close enough to me. Diameters are interesting. For the MG, seating real close to the 1.580" given in Western data should be no problem.

 

[daverich4]

I’ve found CFE Pistol works really well in mid-range loads and is readily available. I load on a Dillion 550C so appreciate that it meters well and doesn’t have a lot of drama when it goes off.

 

[Bazoo]

Personally, when it comes to handguns, I refuse to deviate from the published data in ANY way.
When your favorite .357 Mag. goes KABOOM! in your hands, you too, may rethink your loading decisions and procedures.
But, hey! You do YOU!

Can’t blame you for sticking with known data. Do you use the same brand of brass?

 

[Bazoo]

FYI, Feedback from the OP:

Montana Gold
Base Dia 0.3565
Length 0.6690
Length to top of crimp grove 0.4090
Length to the mid of the crimp grove 0.3680
Length to the bottom of the crimp grove 0.3600

I also had a XTP and measured it.
Base Dia 0.3560
Length 0.6690
Length to top of crimp grove 0.4175
Length to the mid of the crimp grove 0.3905
Length to the bottom of the crimp grove 0.3610

This looks close enough to me. Diameters are interesting. For the MG, seating real close to the 1.580" given in Western data should be no problem.

Length from the crimp to base is extremely important when extrapolating data. I’d be comfortable using the XTP data based on your measurements.

 

[Poper]

Can’t blame you for sticking with known data. Do you use the same brand of brass?

For .357 Mag. or a .38 Special +P rated, yes. For .38 Special, I am not so fussy unless it is for my old S&W M36.
At 70 years of age, I shoot very little full house magnum ammo out of my .357's, 41 or '44's. The arthritis in my hands and wrists doesn't like it, even though the '41 is an old, heavy, 8" scoped Dan Wesson, I rarely shoot it any more.