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36 vs 44 revolvers,? Again...

Discussion in 'Blackpowder' started by ZVP, Dec 3, 2018.

  1. Ratshooter

    Ratshooter Member

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    Hi Expat(Jim). I saw the Sheriffs model last night when looking at Cabelas site so is that the same as the 51 Navy? I really don't know much about the BP pistols. I only have one, An old Richland Arms 58 brass frame Remington I have never fired. Its a big honkin' sucker I would hate to tote around on a belt. Thats why the little Police style 36 Remington I linked to looked so good to me. And the short barreled 51 should be a little lighter than the long barreled 51's. I think.
     
  2. expat_alaska

    expat_alaska Member

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    Yes. Almost everything Pietta concocts is on the 1851 Navy frame, to include the .44 guns (with a rebated cylinder and a cut water table), as well as the obnoxious "pepperbox" .36, and the G&G brasser. Pietta's Pocket Navy .36 is not a "pocket" frame but is just a short barreled 1851 Navy steel, much like the link I gave to you. Uberti's Pocket Navy is on a pocket-sized frame. Even Pietta's 1860 Army .44 is on the 1851 frame with the rebated cylinder/cut water table and the 1860 barrel/load lever with a longer grip frame.

    Good luck to you, sir!

    Regards,

    Jim
     
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  3. JN01

    JN01 Member

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    What is the origin of the term "water table" to describe a part of the frame on a percussion revolver?
     
  4. J-Bar

    J-Bar Member

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    I have asked the same question, and I don’t think anyone knows for sure. It is also used for the corresponding frame area on a side by side double barreled shotgun...the frame area supporting the chambers and breech.

    I suspect it may go back to the days when cannons were in service on wind powered sailing ships, referring to the carriage on which the cannon was mounted; if the ship were sinking and the water level came over the cannon’s carriage, the cannon would not be able to fire. So keeping the “water table” dry would permit the gun to function. But that is only my own personal guess.

    But it is great fun to use such an obscure and colorful term for part of a firearm, is it not? :)
     
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  5. drobs

    drobs Member

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    I waiting for the next Cabela's sale to pick up another 36 cal 1851 Navy. The one I have is lonely.
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  6. Ratshooter

    Ratshooter Member

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    Thanks Jim. You are giving me an education. And you are about to talk me in to buying another gun. Lol. Just what I need.
     
  7. drobs

    drobs Member

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    Get one with a steel frame. You can load it mild to wild.
     
  8. midland man

    midland man Member

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    yes you must as I bought one and the other right close together as the first one was lonely lol!! ;)
     
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  9. 45 Dragoon

    45 Dragoon Member

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    The term "water line" refers to a vertical location usually on ship or aircraft blueprints. When describing the frame of an 1860 Army, water line is usually referring to the step difference between the two water lines represented (the orig. Navy frame and the Army cyl. relief cut).

    Since the Army uses the Navy frame, you can say, "The cyl relief cut for both revolvers share the same "water line" except for the forward relief cut for the Army cyl., which is located on a lower water line."

    Mike
     
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  10. TheOutlawKid

    TheOutlawKid Member

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    Drobs...i too am waiting for the same cabelas sale. Last sale they had i purchased the 1851 navy old silver...i need to get a matching pair. Gonna cut the barrels down to 6 inches...makes them balance better. Just wish i knew when they were having the sale...theyre running it late this year i guess. Usually around thanksgiving and black friday the bp revolvers go on sale.
     
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  11. 44 Dave

    44 Dave Member

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  12. drobs

    drobs Member

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    Their sales have always been inconvenient to me. Usually right after I bought something else expensive. I'm guessing the next sale will be on Christmas Eve or Christmas Day.
     
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  13. bannockburn

    bannockburn Member

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    drobs

    I'm waiting on another Cabelas sale too! Thinking about a Pietta Remington NMA to go with the NMN I got from them a few years ago.

    ZJS538V.jpg
     
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  14. TheDr

    TheDr Member

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    I just shoot what I like.
    The 44 is far more popular, because of advertising etc etc, so that'd what a majority of people bought.
    Good caliber for sure,but I've always liked smaller calibers,that can do the job.
    Hence my fav shotgun is a 20gauge,fav cap n ball is a .32
    Its all about what a person likes.
    My brother,on the other hand ,is a bigger is better guy,and is accurate beyond belief....because he practices with his stuff all the time.
    Same with me and the .32.
     
  15. Jackrabbit1957

    Jackrabbit1957 Member

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    Mike's right about the waterline, in aircraft blueprints it refers to a zero reference on a horizontal plane, usually the floor, all other horizontal lines on the print are referred to as above or below the waterline or frame station zero. I believe it's the same reference point on a shotgun print.
     
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  16. TheOutlawKid

    TheOutlawKid Member

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    Quick question to anyone who might have an answer...are the uberti 1858 navy caliber guns smaller framed than the 1858 army caliber guns? I know when it comes to the originals that the 1858 navy gun frame is smaller than the 1858 army caliber frame. Anyone know the answer to that? I know pietta makes the frames all the same size, dunno if uberti did the same considering uberti is usually closer to being authentic. Thanks.
     
  17. grter

    grter Member

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    I think the Uberti Navy has a slightly shorter barrel but I don't know if the frame and cylinder are .44 parts with .36 caliber holes. I think they are.
     
  18. TTv2

    TTv2 Member

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    I think it comes down to several reasons. This is all IMO, not fact based, but I'm sure if we went back in time to talk to Bill, he'd probably say several of these.

    • .36 may be smaller than .44, but at the time any wound was lethal.
    • .36 used less lead and powder. In the frontier, these were easy to get, but wouldn't necessarily be cheap if they were needed (people have a tendency to know how desperate a person can be and increase the price because the demand is so high.) Cartridges weren't universal, but lead was. Even the natives at the time were probably trading lead balls, caps, and powder.
    • He was already use to shooting the Navy revolvers and didn't want to relearn new pistols. He may have been killed with a S&W Model 2, but the only reason he had that small .32 was because he was playing cards and needed a small gun for the occasion.
    • Bill probably liked the ability to clean them out better over the SAA and Remington revolvers. Being able to completely remove the barrel was just as nice a feature then as it is now.
    • They were common. Spare parts for Navy revolvers were EVERYWHERE and again, this is the 1860's and 70's, you couldn't wait on Ebay for a new main spring for your new gun or uncommon gun.
     
  19. Malachi Leviticus Blue

    Malachi Leviticus Blue Member

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    Why did Wild Bill favor his .36 Navy when bigger options existed?

    While I'm no mind reader, and only Bill can answer conclusively, one obvious factor is the fact that he had to carry the piece around for years between events that required him to use it in self defense.
    A smaller revolver that can do the job has a big advantage over a larger and heavier one that is most of the time, just dead weight to carry.
    Similar to why someone today would choose to carry a .380 instead of a 1911 in .45
     
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  20. jdavis123

    jdavis123 Member

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    I have also been waiting for the sale but, things have changed at Cabela’s since Bass Pro acquired them. Black Powder guns may not go on sale as in the past. I would like to add a .36 cal. 1851 and perhaps a Pedersoli long rifle if the price is right. Perhaps patience will pay off.
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2018
  21. TTv2

    TTv2 Member

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    ^ They still do sales, last I saw was end of Summer and the sale was $50 off all black power revolvers.

    The sales aren't as good as they use to be and I don't see that changing as the prices are already the lowest among retailers.
     
  22. Its 45 Colt

    Its 45 Colt Member

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    As has been said we will never know Wild Bills reasons for carrying the .36's. One thing that comes to mind might be that he shot the pistols each morning so that he could reload them,,,this would definitely bring the $$$ factor in.

    Another thought is,,,I have seen many posts on FB pages asking if a SAA is a viable carry gun. (I know,,,big can O worms) To which I respond, If you are accurate enough, YES, The SAA's have been killing men for over 100 years. Apparently Bill was a good enough shot that he did not need the latest and greatest.
     
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  23. Loyalist Dave

    Loyalist Dave Member

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    Folks often site these two conflicts, and often omit that both the Sepoys and the Filipinos who went on the suicide attacks, did so with bound limbs and high on bush-narcotics. Running "amok" is a term that came from Malaysia where the practice of berserking against one's enemies apparently spread to the Philipeans by the time the Americans were there. IF one is going up against an agressor stoned out of his mind, you might want to, like Wild Bill, go for the attacker's brain, eh? :confused:

    LD
     
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  24. Steel Hayes

    Steel Hayes Member

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    If anyone wants to get me a Xmas present, Uberti rolled these 2 out, original charcoal factory blueing(supposedly same as original Colt). F8ACB7BA-8C06-4105-915A-FD161B6DCCEC.jpeg 786999EC-B6C4-4FF6-B1F6-A8D8C5BFCC43.jpeg

    Trying not to hijack thread,
    I suppose that Mr. Hickock(who was used to using percussion weapons) got second natured shooting the Navies, why change what gives you confidence?
     
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  25. expat_alaska

    expat_alaska Member

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    I would not bet good money that the Cabela's Pietta Navy .36 steel will go on sale.

    I did purchase one from Old South Firearms about 5 weeks ago for $220, and that is the best price I have seen in a while. They supposedly have 2 left at that price. It is a Traditions gun, but I honestly don't see the rave about Traditions guns if this one is an example of their "hand-picked" Pietta quality. Maybe folks want the Traditions box it comes in.

    All 8 of my 1851 Navy .36 "type" pistols are Piettas.

    http://www.oldsouthfirearms.com/traditions1851coltnavyrevolver-36calibersteelframe75octbarrel.aspx

    This is a pic of my $170 2-year-old Cabela's 1851 Navy .36 steel (bottom) and my $220 Traditions 1851 Navy .36 steel (top):

    Pietta-1851-004.jpg

    Things don't last very long as originals here. The Cabela's is now a Leech & Rigdon and the Old South/Traditions is now an Augusta Machine Works.

    Pietta-Leech-Rigdon.jpg

    Augusta-007.jpg

    Good hunting to you folks!

    Regards,

    Jim
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2018
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