360 BuckHammer from Remington?

[3Crows]

Making ammo for existing guns does not sell new guns, which is the idea, no doubt.

As far as straight wall cartridges, at some point the powers that be in each state with restrictions are going to realize the new crop of straight wall cartridges are as powerful, or more powerful, than some of the shouldered cartridges they're trying to restrict.

What happens then, back to square one with no rifle cartridges? Or specified cartridges only again?

I think there is a misunderstanding to the intent of straight wall. The idea is not to limit fpe but to limit the results of high velocity combined with good ballistic coefficient. This new cartridge like the .350 Legend or a .44 Magnum is not going to fly 5 miles away still hauling axx like a 7mm RM. Nor would it be capable of taking a deer at 1000 yards.

We can say this is the stupid government attempting to protect stupid people from doing stupid things to other people. I cannot say. But it is better than a shotgun only and this new cartridge is suitable for American as Apple Pie lever guns. And it seems we are on the cusp of a lever gun resurgence. Long live the lever gun. And this new cartridge looks like it would be fun to load for and be excellent for cast lead and the cases could be formed form .30-30. I do not see the problem.

 

[plant.one]

Making ammo for existing guns does not sell new guns, which is the idea, no doubt.

As far as straight wall cartridges, at some point the powers that be in each state with restrictions are going to realize the new crop of straight wall cartridges are as powerful, or more powerful, than some of the shouldered cartridges they're trying to restrict.

What happens then, back to square one with no rifle cartridges? Or specified cartridges only again?

The straight wall rules are basically a way of as noted preventing stupid people from doing stupid things to harm other people unintentionally as well as giving infield enforcement officers and easily identifiable enforcement ability.

By limiting to straight wall cartridges not only are you limiting the effective range in power of what the hunting intended rounds are capable of but you eliminate so many different calibers from the list of options as to make field enforcement very simple.

When you open it up to lower powered bottleneck cartridges you're invariably making infield enforcement identification, without a very specific list of approved calibers being carried by every officer, quite difficult.

Additionally if we were to apply similar rules as are used in the straight wall regulations - that being min 35 caliber, case length between 1.600-1.800 - are there even commercially available bottleneck cartridges that fit this spec?

And if for example we change the limiting factor to the velocity, what's to stop someone from taking a otherwise valid caliber, using a light for caliber bullet and hot loading it to well exceed the not only intent and spirit of the law but actual velocity limitations? Are the Enforcement Officers going to be required to start carrying chronographs with them? Etc

So hopefully - with my hypothetical examples - you can begin to understand why the decision to open up the formerly shotgun only hunting zones to these very limited selection of straight walled calibers might be an attractive option for the states who were otherwise opposed to changing those hunting Zone regulations.

There was enough of a challenge from the Sporting Community to get the changes that were put in place enacted, let's not try to complicate things more and make those folks who are now in a Freer hunting environment have to go back in time because of a feeling of being slighted simply because of a performance window achievement over someone's old timey favorite.

 

[earlthegoat2]

Even though I was none too enthusiastic about the 350 Legend, Im pretty well on board for this.

Funny all you had to do was make something lever action friendly and not AR-15 friendly to get me interested. Also, 358 bullets appeal to me much more. I have a nice stash of 220 gr Speer Hot Cors for just such an occasion.

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

 

[Jon35er]

Hi everyone I’m new here.
Just my two cents on the 360 Buckhammer.
It seems to be a modernized version of the ancient wildcat 35-30wcf (a 30-30 opened up to .358 diameter) but shortened to meet state requirements. It will be interesting for the fact that its a rimmed cartridge so headspacing will be a cinch for the reloader. I would be interested to know if the brass itself is thicker in order to allow a higher working pressure to compare to the 350 Legend.

 

[NMachine]

Hi everyone I’m new here.
Just my two cents on the 360 Buckhammer.
It seems to be a modernized version of the ancient wildcat 35-30wcf (a 30-30 opened up to .358 diameter) but shortened to meet state requirements. It will be interesting for the fact that its a rimmed cartridge so headspacing will be a cinch for the reloader. I would be interested to know if the brass itself is thicker in order to allow a higher working pressure to compare to the 350 Legend.

Welcome to the forum.

 

[reddog81]

I’ve been surprised at how well 350 Legend has taken off. Just about every time I’ve shot rifles at the range this year I’ve picked up 350L brass. A couple of times there have been boxes worth of ammo laying around. The only more common brass I run across is .223. I guess it makes sense to try and ride that wave but how many lever actions are sold each year versus AR’s?

I’d bet in 5 years nobody will be making this ammo except as very limited runs one time per year.

 

[Bfh_auto]

Sounds like an interesting prospect.
If the rifles all sell for $1500.00 up
like most do now, I won't be on the
waiting list. I know how to, and can
cleanly kill the animals I hunt with
the old "obsolete " firearms I already
use.

Same here. Don't have have any interest in the new cartridges that fill nonexistent holes.
Load the 357 max in a lever action for straight wall states.
All I see is a rerun of 280, 260, and 30 AR.
3 good cartridges that didn't get Hornady level support to make them mainstream.

 

[codytrucker]

Maybe Marlin-Ruger will bring out a light , thin carbine like a Texan-Marauder in this .I fear this may be the end of the 35 rem . should of called it the 35-50 . or 36-55 , though . I could even see Winchester chambering for it .

 

[earlthegoat2]

I’ve been surprised at how well 350 Legend has taken off. Just about every time I’ve shot rifles at the range this year I’ve picked up 350L brass. A couple of times there have been boxes worth of ammo laying around. The only more common brass I run across is .223. I guess it makes sense to try and ride that wave but how many lever actions are sold each year versus AR’s?

I’d bet in 5 years nobody will be making this ammo except as very limited runs one time per year.

It is very strange to me how interested in this I am. As a general rule, I hate new things in the gun world but usually open up to them in 5-10 years. This has my attention hard for reasons I can’t even explain.

I have already made plans to buy a rifle and stock up on components within a year of its release (if it ever does ). Wouldn’t be the first vaporware in the firearms industry. That way I’ll be set if it does fail commercially.

They could get me again with a big bore version.

 

[sabbfan]

One question I have is what pressure the 360 will run at to be able to be used in a lever rifle. I have a 350 Legend in a Savage 110 and really like it, if the 360 is going to duplicate the Legend I would think it would have to have a similar pressure. The Legend runs max about 55k psi which I would think would be too high for a lever gun.

 

[3Crows]

It is very strange to me how interested in this I am. As a general rule, I hate new things in the gun world but usually open up to them in 5-10 years. This has my attention hard for reasons I can’t even explain.

I have already made plans to buy a rifle and stock up on components within a year of its release (if it ever does ). Wouldn’t be the first vaporware in the firearms industry. That way I’ll be set if it does fail commercially.

They could get me again with a big bore version.

Me too. I visit straight wall states and have a few old hunting buddies in such places so I would much prefer this new cartridge in a lever gun than my CVA .44 Magnum I bought specific to this purpose. Ohio does not have a length restriction for the case so I can use my .45-70 which is my preferred cartridge. But, while (nearly) everyone it seems is dissing on the new kid, it looks like a fun cartridge to reload for, heaven sent for cast lead bullets. I love straight wall cartridges, regulations aside. I would really like to convert one of my 336 rifles to a 38-55, maybe I will and if Ruger introduces a Marlin 336 in this new cartridge I may pop for one over the 1894 in .45 Colt. Especially if it is stainless steel.

 

[Ranger99]

One question I have is what pressure the 360 will run at to be able to be used in a lever rifle. I have a 350 Legend in a Savage 110 and really like it, if the 360 is going to duplicate the Legend I would think it would have to have a similar pressure. The Legend runs max about 55k psi which I would think would be too high for a never gun.

Well you can rest assured that in
this litigious society of 2022 soon to
be 2023 that a manufacturer most
likely won't bother with distributing
an unsafe firearm.
That, and stick with published proven
loads and everything should fly sans
turbulence
Personally I've never had any problems
with my 444 Marlins, or the friends
that have the 4570's have all chugged
along trouble free

 

[Ranger99]

. .Load the 357 max in a lever action for straight wall states. . . .

Some years back I checked into having
an 1894 Marlin 357 made up as a Maxi.
Because of the extra length, I was
informed that the work to redo the
cartridge feed, etc. would cost more
than I was willing to spend
I've since rechambered a 357 single
to Maxi, and it's a very capable round
spit through a rifle.
I'd be very interested if they would
bring out a purpose-built Maxi lever

 

[Goosey]

What happens then, back to square one with no rifle cartridges? Or specified cartridges only again?

Something is gonna happen... and then the "360 Buckmaster" will be pointless. Assuming it's not DOA, which would be my bet.

 

[P Flados]

For all of those that question this, consider how may lever guns Henry sells.

Even though the Henry lever guns are popular, the 357 Mag and the 44 Mag are not in the same class as the 350L and the 450 BM. Henry has been missing out on sales in the straight wall states.

The latest reports have the 360 a little faster than the 350L (more case capacity, but less pressure). Effective range with with round nose will be about the same as 350L. The 360 will have a slight edge if they come out with a tubular magazine safe pointy plastic tip round.

For reloaders, this thing will be great. The headspacing on the rim will make it much easier to deal with than the 350L. It should be very good for Cast bullet shooters. Converting 30-30 brass should work fine.

 

[Goosey]

For all of those that question this, consider how may lever guns Henry sells.

Even though the Henry lever guns are popular, the 357 Mag and the 44 Mag are not in the same class as the 350L and the 450 BM. Henry has been missing in the straight wall states.

The ballistics are pretty good, but like Speedo66 pointed out, if they are allowing all these new tailor-made cartridges, 200 gr at 2190 fps, the public and the game departments will start questioning why they can't add .30-30, .32 Special and .35 Remington to the lists of allowed cartridges, and then the .360 would be dead as a nail.

 

[earlthegoat2]

MIchigan’s regs state “35 caliber” which most would agree .358 diameter is. Do some state’s regs state .357 diameter?

 

[Rich44]

Ohio states minimum of .357 maximum of .50 no case length requirements

 

[sabbfan]

MIchigan’s regs state “35 caliber” which most would agree .358 diameter is. Do some state’s regs state .357 diameter?

Iowa now allows a diameter of 35 to 500 so rounds like the 35 Whelen, 35 REM, 358 Win also are allowed even though they are bottleneck. So Iowa is no longer a straight wall state there just aren’t many bottleneck rounds that qualify that aren’t way overkill for deer.

 

[JeeperCreeper]

The ballistics are pretty good, but like Speedo66 pointed out, if they are allowing all these new tailor-made cartridges, 200 gr at 2190 fps, the public and the game departments will start questioning why they can't add .30-30, .32 Special and .35 Remington to the lists of allowed cartridges, and then the .360 would be dead as a nail.

I don't have faith that any bureaucratic government agencies will question anything logically.

I for one welcome variety and hope it does well as I like lever guns!

Having said that, being an adopter of a few defunct cartridges, I'll wait a while before considering adding one. But like others mentioned, I'm surprised the 350 Legend got popular.

But also, AR platform adoption is easy/cheap with just getting an upper as opposed to a whole lever rifle

 

[Buckeye63]

The 356 Winchester operated at 52,000 CUP
and was a heck of a cartridge.. absolutely one of my favorites

The 360 will be popular… if … they make ammo readily available…. Build light compact leverguns to house the cartridge..

 

[JTHunter]

Whatever happened to the .35 Whelan cartridge?

 

[Jon35er]

One question I have is what pressure the 360 will run at to be able to be used in a lever rifle. I have a 350 Legend in a Savage 110 and really like it, if the 360 is going to duplicate the Legend I would think it would have to have a similar pressure. The Legend runs max about 55k psi which I would think would be too high for a never gun.

Thats not necessarily the case, rifles like the Browning BLR, Henry Longranger, Savage 99 all can handle 55kpsi. But I take you are all probably referring to more traditional rifles like the Marlin 336 and Winchester 94?

 

[Jon35er]

Whatever happened to the .35 Whelan cartridge?

Its still alive, Remington made a few hundred or thousand Model 7600 Carbines in 35 Whelen in 2018/19. I was lucky enough to puck one up.
I believe CVA still makes a single shot in that caliber. The 35 Whelen is on of my personal favorite calibers for an all around hunting cartridge. But unfortunately it does not fit the parameters for state laws of what is being discussed which is the 360 Buckhammer. Still a phenomenal cartridge though.

 

[Enfielder]

I’m just happy to know that .358 200gr LRN bullets are being made again by Remington. I want about 700 of them and I’ll be all set for retirement reloading.